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nightbat wrote
Dan DeConinck wrote: Hello, The cost of one manned mission to Mars ($400.00 B ) is equivalent to a thousand robotic missions.( $0.40 B) We could put dozens of scientific satellites in ordit around not only all our solar system's planets but also all their major moons. In addition we could send dozens of landers to all latitudes of all planets and their major moons. It doesn't stop there. We could visit comets and astroids and even send spacecraft out of our solar system. We could virtually touch every corner of our solar system and for decades. The scientific payoff and discoveries dwarfs the alternative of a single mission to a single location of a single planet for just a few months. Supporters of manned spaceflight like to argue that the astronaut is more effective than a robot. Well even if this was true the astonaut would need to be not twice as effect or ten times or one hundred times but rather a thousand times as effective to just get the same value as the robot. Lets concede that the astronaut is twice as effective as the robot. That makes the robot a better choice by a factor of five hundred times. Would the Mars pancam image be any better taken my an astronaut ? The argument for the astronauts also claims that a human is needed in the loop. That argument misses the point that with robots humans are in the loop. Just look at JPL. They have hundreds of the worlds best researchers. They are directly in the loop orchestrating the rovers activities. This is called telepresence. Those researches are virtually on Mars. Also note how JPL claims the rover cameras have 20/20 vision. This telepresence technology is also on trial in the operating rooms of hospitals. Doctors are performing surgery telerobotically from upto thousands of miles away from the patients. The plain fact is that people are in the loop big time with the robots. Now remember, I concede that the astronauts would be more effect than the robots but the problem is that they would be marginally more effective for a disproportionate cost to the tune of five hundred times less scientific returns. The manned mission supporters realize this lack of value so they cite the spin off technologies that benefit mankind. This is a very hollow argument. If you really value, for instance, the medical devices that emerge then it is silly to not pursue them in a direct targeted way rather than spending all your money visiting the moon and hoping that this will trickle down to an improved pace maker. Furthermore much if not all of the spin of technologies will inevitablly emerge on their own good timetable. Please, lets touch and visit every corner of our solar system and for decades rather than a single mission to a single location of a single planet for a single moment in time. Dan nightbat Dan, what you say is very scientifically sound, but then again you're not the one trying to run for President for the second time. Political realities are very different then scientific ones. You're asking for practical fiscal agendas for long term space exploration playback rather then short term imagination catching " hold the presses " front rag covers that may just get you reelected, to control the purse strings again for other important things. What good is fiscal responsibility if the next guy wins and cuts all your so fiscal responsible programs using your argument of just using JPL smart robots, not inspiring, headline grabbing, astronauts? When running for Political office, image plays a big part in getting elected to higher office. Look at President Hoover, despite very prudent economic policies and all that he positively accomplished, his term by people in general was considered a dismal failure, because of millions of folks being placed out of work, bread lines, factory closings, stock market collapse, you name it. He didn't cause all of that, those effects were started long before he ever got elected and assumed office, but got blamed just the same. Economic conditions have a mind of their own, a time delineation, very much like it takes a large boat miles to break or to make a change of heading to avoid collision or alter and reverse direction ex... ( Unsinkable Titanic ). If you are doing research in some laboratory trying to be fiscally responsible with limited already allotted funds, yes, not if your trying to get elected and basically helping everybody, and the next political party guy is promising them, the people, the world. So what do you do, ha, ha, promise them hopefully bigger and better Worlds. Think about it, regards, the nightbat |
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How to Mars ? ( people / robots... debate )
Hello,
The cost of one manned mission to Mars ($400.00 B ) is equivalent to a thousand robotic missions.( $0.40 B) We could put dozens of scientific satellites in ordit around not only all our solar system's planets but also all their major moons. In addition we could send dozens of landers to all latitudes of all planets and their major moons. It doesn't stop there. We could visit comets and astroids and even send spacecraft out of our solar system. We could virtually touch every corner of our solar system and for decades. The scientific payoff and discoveries dwarfs the alternative of a single mission to a single location of a single planet for just a few months. Supporters of manned spaceflight like to argue that the astronaut is more effective than a robot. Well even if this was true the astonaut would need to be not twice as effect or ten times or one hundred times but rather a thousand times as effective to just get the same value as the robot. Lets concede that the astronaut is twice as effective as the robot. That makes the robot a better choice by a factor of five hundred times. Would the Mars pancam image be any better taken my an astronaut ? The argument for the astronauts also claims that a human is needed in the loop. That argument misses the point that with robots humans are in the loop. Just look at JPL. They have hundreds of the worlds best researchers. They are directly in the loop orchestrating the rovers activities. This is called telepresence. Those researches are virtually on Mars. Also note how JPL claims the rover cameras have 20/20 vision. This telepresence technology is also on trial in the operating rooms of hospitals. Doctors are performing surgery telerobotically from upto thousands of miles away from the patients. The plain fact is that people are in the loop big time with the robots. Now remember, I concede that the astronauts would be more effect than the robots but the problem is that they would be marginally more effective for a disproportionate cost to the tune of five hundred times less scientific returns. The manned mission supporters realize this lack of value so they cite the spin off technologies that benefit mankind. This is a very hollow argument. If you really value, for instance, the medical devices that emerge then it is silly to not pursue them in a direct targeted way rather than spending all your money visiting the moon and hoping that this will trickle down to an improved pace maker. Furthermore much if not all of the spin of technologies will inevitablly emerge on their own good timetable. Please, lets touch and visit every corner of our solar system and for decades rather than a single mission to a single location of a single planet for a single moment in time. Dan |
#3
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Hi Nightbat Right you are. Prof of that is giving senior citizens
free drugs. Once the electron is over,and at a press conference if a reporter brings this up the president will never call for his question ever again. This reporter is on the black list. Bert |
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