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ATV may be delayed again



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 21st 07, 02:17 AM posted to sci.space.station
John Doe
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Posts: 1,134
Default ATV may be delayed again

full article at
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-esas-atv.html


The European Space Agency's first Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV) will begin
its programme's four-month long qualification process in April, which will help
to answer NASA's questions about International Space Station (ISS) safety and
the potential for commercial ATV cargo supply.


NASA has some tough questions and it is felt the July 25 launch date will have
to be delayed.

Has Kurs gone through similar USA study/approval before ?

Reading the article, I get the impression that because NASA's DART experiment
failed, they feel the europeans would also fail. Does NASA have a nagative
attitude towards ESA's capabilities ?

Or has the ATV project been plagued by so many problems that NASA is right to
wonder if the project was managed with "total quality assurance" from head to toe ?
  #2  
Old March 21st 07, 01:51 PM posted to sci.space.station
Jim Kingdon
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Default ATV may be delayed again

The European Space Agency's first Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV)
will begin its programme's four-month long qualification process in
April, which will help to answer NASA's questions about International
Space Station (ISS) safety and the potential for commercial ATV cargo
supply.


Well, I'm not sure exactly where this is coming from, but it seems
that Congress set up a committee in 2005:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=23486

That such committees recommend more reviews and tests is a pretty much
universal tendency. There doesn't seem to be a lot of reason to
suspect they are picking on ATV in particular (at least, not based on
a quick glance).

There's also some information at:
https://onemis.nasa.gov/iss_safety/
including biographies of the participants (short summary: mostly
career NASA people).
  #3  
Old March 23rd 07, 09:38 PM posted to sci.space.station
frédéric haessig
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Posts: 97
Default ATV may be delayed again


"John Doe" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
full article at
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-esas-atv.html


The European Space Agency's first Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV) will
begin its programme's four-month long qualification process in April,
which will help


Acually, ATV qualification has been on-going from quite some time now. It
was already underway last summer.

to answer NASA's questions about International Space Station (ISS) safety
and


Also a process which has been ongoing for more than a year.

the potential for commercial ATV cargo supply.


NASA has some tough questions and it is felt the July 25 launch date will
have to be delayed.


July launch has been known to be overly optimistic for quite some time.

Try October or November, IMO.... if all goes well.


Has Kurs gone through similar USA study/approval before ?


Kurs was completely redesigned by the russians for the ATV. The electronics
are completely different.

OTOH, NASA asked also some very difficult questions ( as in, it's difficult
to get the answer from the russians ) about completely recurent componants,
which have flown for decades ( like ADA ). Sometime, it feels like NASA is
using ATV to get knowledge on Progress and Soyouz ( or to discover what NASA
should have done with these in contingency cases ).



  #4  
Old March 24th 07, 09:57 AM posted to sci.space.station
John Doe
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Posts: 1,134
Default ATV may be delayed again

frédéric haessig wrote:
July launch has been known to be overly optimistic for quite some time.
Try October or November, IMO.... if all goes well.


Merci.

Do you know if there are known problems/issues with it ? Or is it just a
question of pleasing paperwork people , especially at NASA ?


which have flown for decades ( like ADA ). Sometime, it feels like NASA is
using ATV to get knowledge on Progress and Soyouz ( or to discover what NASA
should have done with these in contingency cases ).


One of the articles I had read mentioned that the USA committes became more
weary after the NASA projects such as DART had failed. I guess there is some
logic to this. If NASA's quality assurance and testing failed to prevent the
DART failure, then those same standards and quality assurance process would also
not prevent failure of ATV.
  #5  
Old March 24th 07, 11:20 AM posted to sci.space.station
frédéric haessig
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Posts: 97
Default ATV may be delayed again


"John Doe" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
frédéric haessig wrote:
July launch has been known to be overly optimistic for quite some time.
Try October or November, IMO.... if all goes well.


Merci.


Do you know if there are known problems/issues with it ? Or is it just a
question of pleasing paperwork people , especially at NASA ?


A bit of both.

The qualification has revealed a few unforeseen problems ( that's what
testing is for, after all ) but all the ones I'm aware of ( which means all
on the docking - and refueling - system plus a bit on the rest of the
system ) required only changes in procedures or aditionnal analysis to
confirm that actual design margins were enough. There were talk to go
farther than that on a few points at the beginning of the year ( ie limited
SW changes ) but it has not proven necessary AFAIK.

Of course, there's always new requests on points which were not in the
original specifications and/or trying to sneak in new requirements ( aka
mission creep ) even as late as now ( and on a fixed cost contract )......


which have flown for decades ( like ADA ). Sometime, it feels like NASA
is using ATV to get knowledge on Progress and Soyouz ( or to discover
what NASA should have done with these in contingency cases ).


One of the articles I had read mentioned that the USA committes became more
weary after the NASA projects such as DART had failed. I guess there is
some logic to this. If NASA's quality assurance and testing failed to
prevent the DART failure, then those same standards and quality assurance
process would also not prevent failure of ATV.


Actually, I have seen this from three-four years ago, even before the DART
failure.

Not to mention that ATV quality assurance is under ESA standard, not NASA
and that ESA and the russian space agancy have much more input on ATV
testing than NASA.


 




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