|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Derek Lyons wrote: Strange as it may sound.. When you exclude edge cases and highly specialized craft... (I.E. the Clippers) you find my assertion correct. Wouldn't it be reasonable in this case to compare the best of 1770 with the best of 1870? Cheers Bent D -- Bent Dalager - - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd powered by emacs |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
... "Christopher M. Jones" wrote: Derek Lyons wrote: "Vello" wrote: And just by facts - at least for last centuries any generation had have in use technologies superior to what last generation had. Today we can't travel faster then 40 years ago, And somebody in 1770 couldn't ride a horse any faster than the Greeks 20 centuries before. in 1870 we couldn't sail any faster than the Armada 400 years before... Strange as it may sound, both of those assertions are incorrect. Not all horses, nor all sailing vessels, are the same. Compare, for example, the speed of a Spanish Galleon (~8 kts) vs. the speed of a Yankee Clipper built centuries later (~18 kts). Strange as it may sound.. When you exclude edge cases and highly specialized craft... (I.E. the Clippers) you find my assertion correct. True, but your original claim didn't exclude edge cases. In 1870 we could, jut not many did. And as for horses, actually I believe the size, speed and stamina of horses from the BC era to the 1800s did change remarkably. I'd have to research that one though before hanging my hat on it. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote: And as for horses, actually I believe the size, speed and stamina of horses from the BC era to the 1800s did change remarkably. There will also have been some development in the harness used, stirrups possibly being the most important innovation. I'm not sure when the horse shoe was introduced in western culture, the greeks may have had it for all I know. Cheers Bent D -- Bent Dalager - - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd powered by emacs |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Derek Lyons wrote:
"Christopher M. Jones" wrote: Derek Lyons wrote: And somebody in 1770 couldn't ride a horse any faster than the Greeks 20 centuries before. in 1870 we couldn't sail any faster than the Armada 400 years before... Strange as it may sound, both of those assertions are incorrect. Not all horses, nor all sailing vessels, are the same. Compare, for example, the speed of a Spanish Galleon (~8 kts) vs. the speed of a Yankee Clipper built centuries later (~18 kts). Strange as it may sound.. When you exclude edge cases and highly specialized craft... (I.E. the Clippers) you find my assertion correct. No, it's even less correct. Compare the best to best or just average to average. In 1870 vs. 1770. On the sea, over land, etc. Using average transporation systems available at the times you'd generally get to where you were going faster in 1870 than you would in 1770. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
wrote in message
... Derek Lyons wrote: "Vello" wrote: Just one strange idea: mankind don't have now space capabilities comparable what we had 30 years ago. It seems it is first time mankind is "dropping back" in technology - or is there some other examples in history (well there was a time after collapse of Roman Empire when a lot of technologies were lost, but my post is about last 200-400 years) Nice thesis, but it founders on the rocks of reality. There isn't a capability that we had thirty years ago that we know don't have. Based on a loose definition of 30 years, the ability to launch a mission to the moon on a few months leadtime. We are no worse off for not being dedicated to pointless endeavours like re-visiting the "ash-pit in the sky". Good science can be done there by robotic means and nowadays we are absorbed with more interesting targets for research and investigation. America may be suffering setbacks in it's space program but the French "Ariane" is a superb and successful piece of engineering and the Russian & Chinese launchers are also apparently reliable enough to be commercially viable. The British developed an excellent launcher, "Blue Streak", which was capable of launching 100 - kilo packages, but they stepped away from launcher development to concentrate on satellite-construction. That wasn't a step backwards but sideways to a scale of production which better suited their national capabilities at the time. Space programs should serve people not the other way round. Are you sure you aren't hankering after an opportunity to revisit not the Moon, but "past glories"? With nations like India and Japan capable of launching their own satellites you'll have to look for that elsewhere. Keigwin. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
"Keigwin" wrote in message
... wrote in message ... Derek Lyons wrote: "Vello" wrote: Just one strange idea: mankind don't have now space capabilities comparable what we had 30 years ago. It seems it is first time mankind is "dropping back" in technology - or is there some other examples in history (well there was a time after collapse of Roman Empire when a lot of technologies were lost, but my post is about last 200-400 years) Nice thesis, but it founders on the rocks of reality. There isn't a capability that we had thirty years ago that we know don't have. Excuse me, but you're wrong. What about heavy-lift capability? The Saturn V had a lot more throw weight than the Shuttle, and today the Shuttle is the only vehicle that can complete the ISS. How about the ability to design crewed spacecraft? Both the Russians and Americans had several man-centuries of hands-on experience in spacecraft design, and that's been lost. The only people not on retirement who've designed a functional crewed spacecraft (as opposed to segments of a space station) work for Scaled Composites. If we haven't lost any capabilities, why is NASA talking about letting Hubble die? Space programs should serve people not the other way round. Minor quibble, but the programs should serve thier investors. It's about time that "investors" and "the people" stopped being the same thing. However, when space programs are forced to expand the frontiers of engineering and technology, "people" receive an awful lot of benefits in the form of technology fallout. Are you sure you aren't hankering after an opportunity to revisit not the Moon, but "past glories"? With nations like India and Japan capable of launching their own satellites you'll have to look for that elsewhere. I don't see anything wrong with proving to ourselves that we can still rise to a challenge. Those footprints in the dust motivated an entire generation of American engineers and scientists, and given that fact, they were probably a terrific investment. However, I also don't see it happening; it's a little difficult to acheive new successes when you've systematically destroyed everything that made the past glories possible. We (Americans) destroyed the design documents for the Saturn V, allowed the technical skill base to go to seed, and forced the next generation to waste itself doing maintenance on that POS Shuttle instead of exploring new technologies. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
"Lou Adornato" wrote in
: We (Americans) destroyed the design documents for the Saturn V, Aw, geez, not this $#!+ again... The Saturn V design documents were not destroyed. They are stored on microfiche in the MSFC archives. The original *vellum* drawings may no longer exist, but big whup. -- JRF Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail, check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and think one step ahead of IBM. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Lou Adornato wrote:
If we haven't lost any capabilities, why is NASA talking about letting Hubble die? Here's something to think about to shine some light on why we don't keep saving spacecraft over and over, theoretically, by replacing parts, a car can run forever. How come no one ever does that but rather just buys a new car? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Let me say THIS about THAT | Ed Conrad | Astronomy Misc | 1 | August 13th 04 01:54 AM |
knowledge is power | mostafa dia | Satellites | 3 | August 11th 04 07:17 AM |
knowledge is power | mostafa dia | Amateur Astronomy | 5 | August 8th 04 12:22 AM |
knowledge is power | mostafa dia | FITS | 0 | August 7th 04 02:37 AM |
Incontrovertible Evidence | Cash | Astronomy Misc | 1 | August 24th 03 07:22 PM |