A really great essay by Keith Cowing

Rand Simberg wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:28:46 +0000 (UTC), in a place far, far away,
(Greg Kuperberg) made the phosphor on
my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:


In article ,
Rand Simberg wrote:

If you want a space policy that "goes somewhere", don't expect the Bush
administration to get any more work out of "the beast". They're already
whipping it hard and they plan to cut its rations further.

"Cut its rations"?

What planet have you been vacationing on, Greg? This is one of the
biggest-spending administrations and Congresses in the history of the
Republic.

I'm well aware of that; you just misunderstood my metaphor. By rations I
meant *revenue*. The federal government is on course to tax ever less and
spend ever more, until it faces a fiscal crisis.


It's not taxing ever less. Tax revenues will increase now that the
economy's growing strongly.


I haven't seen any recent mentions on Smoot-Hawley Bush's steel tariffs.
Are the ECU et al still threatening a trade war?

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:24:56 -0700, in a place far, far away, Hop
David made the phosphor
on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

It's not taxing ever less. Tax revenues will increase now that the
economy's growing strongly.

I haven't seen any recent mentions on Smoot-Hawley Bush's steel tariffs.
Are the ECU et al still threatening a trade war?

Yes, and last week the International Court ruled against the
administration. Hopefully they'll come to their senses, but I fear
not. When it comes to domestic policy, Carl Rove rules the roost.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
Here's my email address for autospammers:

Rand Simberg ) wrote:
: On 14 Nov 2003 14:53:25 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Jorge R.
: Frank" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
: such a way as to indicate that:

: Well, it didn't say much. Just a buncha speculation.
: Repugnican presidents never help space programs unless they are to
: boost our
: military superiority.
:
: Is that why Reagan initiated the space station program?
:
: For that matter, is that *not* why Kennedy initiated the moon program?

: Well, to be fair, not really. It was to win the Cold War by
: non-military means. But it had little to do with space.

What about the speculation of actually going to the moon with the
Russians? JFk was alleged to have actually suggested that. I think the
Apollo-Soyuz in 75 would have occurred earlier had JFK lived. But that is
my speculation.

Eric

: --
: simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
: interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

: "Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
: Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
: Here's my email address for autospammers:

(Eric Chomko) wrote:

What about the speculation of actually going to the moon with the
Russians? JFk was alleged to have actually suggested that. I think the
Apollo-Soyuz in 75 would have occurred earlier had JFK lived. But that is
my speculation.

It's an open question that, had JFK lived, would Apollo have actually
happened at all? Contrary to popular mythos JFK was a supporter of
cold war chest beating, not of the space program. Much of the speed
and urgency that Apollo developed was because the nation saw it as a
monument to the young, popular, and assassinated President.

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

In article ,
Derek Lyons wrote:
It's an open question that, had JFK lived, would Apollo have actually
happened at all? Contrary to popular mythos JFK was a supporter of
cold war chest beating, not of the space program.

Indeed, there are signs that JFK was having second thoughts about the cost
of Apollo. I'm not sure it would have been canceled had he lived, but I
suspect it would have been throttled back substantially.

Much of the speed
and urgency that Apollo developed was because the nation saw it as a
monument to the young, popular, and assassinated President.

Indeed so. JFK's tragic death made a number of his most prominent
programs politically untouchable for several years, and Apollo was one of
them. When the assassination did start to fade from immediate memory,
NASA started to have budget problems and started to lose its more
ambitious programs.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:31:40 +0000 (UTC), in a place far, far away,
(Eric Chomko) made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

: For that matter, is that *not* why Kennedy initiated the moon program?

: Well, to be fair, not really. It was to win the Cold War by
: non-military means. But it had little to do with space.

What about the speculation of actually going to the moon with the
Russians? JFk was alleged to have actually suggested that. I think the
Apollo-Soyuz in 75 would have occurred earlier had JFK lived. But that is
my speculation.

Yes, speculation is all it is. Had Kennedy lived, I doubt that things
would have gone any differently, since it's now historical record that
he didn't give a damn about space.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
Here's my email address for autospammers:

Derek Lyons ) wrote:
: (Eric Chomko) wrote:

: What about the speculation of actually going to the moon with the
: Russians? JFk was alleged to have actually suggested that. I think the
: Apollo-Soyuz in 75 would have occurred earlier had JFK lived. But that is
: my speculation.

: It's an open question that, had JFK lived, would Apollo have actually
: happened at all? Contrary to popular mythos JFK was a supporter of
: cold war chest beating, not of the space program. Much of the speed
: and urgency that Apollo developed was because the nation saw it as a
: monument to the young, popular, and assassinated President.

So his commitment to go to the moon given to a joint session of Congress
back in 61 was just talk? No, no president has EVER made a commitment like
JFK did to space. All have, if they did anything at all, spoke about
events after the fact. He was the only one to make a commitment and
actually have it turn out. And posthumously at that.

Eric

: D.
: --
: The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
: at the following URLs:

: Text-Only Version:
: http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

: Enhanced HTML Version:
: http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

: Corrections, comments, and additions should be
: e-mailed to , as well as posted to
: sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
: discussion.

Henry Spencer ) wrote:
: In article ,
: Derek Lyons wrote:
: It's an open question that, had JFK lived, would Apollo have actually
: happened at all? Contrary to popular mythos JFK was a supporter of
: cold war chest beating, not of the space program.

: Indeed, there are signs that JFK was having second thoughts about the cost
: of Apollo. I'm not sure it would have been canceled had he lived, but I
: suspect it would have been throttled back substantially.

: Much of the speed
: and urgency that Apollo developed was because the nation saw it as a
: monument to the young, popular, and assassinated President.

: Indeed so. JFK's tragic death made a number of his most prominent
: programs politically untouchable for several years, and Apollo was one of
: them. When the assassination did start to fade from immediate memory,
: NASA started to have budget problems and started to lose its more
: ambitious programs.

When exactly was that?

I think LBJ being a Texan and Houston being the seat of mission control
made the space program safe under his presidency as well.

Eric

: --
: MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
: pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

Rand Simberg ) wrote:
: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:31:40 +0000 (UTC), in a place far, far away,
: (Eric Chomko) made the phosphor on my monitor
: glow in such a way as to indicate that:

: : For that matter, is that *not* why Kennedy initiated the moon program?
:
: : Well, to be fair, not really. It was to win the Cold War by
: : non-military means. But it had little to do with space.
:
: What about the speculation of actually going to the moon with the
: Russians? JFk was alleged to have actually suggested that. I think the
: Apollo-Soyuz in 75 would have occurred earlier had JFK lived. But that is
: my speculation.

: Yes, speculation is all it is. Had Kennedy lived, I doubt that things
: would have gone any differently, since it's now historical record that
: he didn't give a damn about space.

Total partisan BS! JFK took a more active role in space than any
Republican president and probably more so than any other president
period. Perhaps you are one of those righties that likes
reassassinating JFK at every turn?

You're a legend in your own mind. Fox news indeed. You and O'Reilly, yeah,
that's some real talent.

Your politics are PREDICTABLE!

Eric

: --
: simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
: interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

: "Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
: Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
: Here's my email address for autospammers:

In article ,
Eric Chomko wrote:
: ...When the assassination did start to fade from immediate memory,
: NASA started to have budget problems and started to lose its more
: ambitious programs.

When exactly was that?
I think LBJ being a Texan and Houston being the seat of mission control
made the space program safe under his presidency as well.

Unfortunately, not so. NASA's budget, and in particular its long-term
follow-ons to existing programs, suffered badly in the summer of 1967.
In spring 1967, NASA selected a second batch of scientist-astronauts; in
fall 1967, when they reported for duty, the first thing they heard was
Deke Slayton telling them he didn't have any missions for them to fly.

There had been strong hints of trouble developing a year or so earlier,
but summer 1967 was when it got bad.

LBJ was preoccupied with his pet war by that time. He expressed regrets
about the NASA budget cuts, but didn't put any political capital into
trying to stop them.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |