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.......So America can become the next energy "Saudi Arabia"!



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 29th 09, 05:23 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station,sci.military.naval
Marvin the Martian
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Posts: 655
Default .......So America can become the next energy "Saudi Arabia"!

On Sat, 30 May 2009 22:43:35 -0400, Jonathan wrote:

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...


This August, the Augustine Commision will report it's review of NASA to
President Obama.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1733782/

norm_augustine_to_review_the_vision.html?singlepag e=true&cat=15


What will it decide? An entirely new direction for NASA?

Or will it just try to squeeze a lemon, and revamp/delay the current
"Vision for Space Exploration", newly renamed Constellation. Which is
to devote the next fifty years or so building a small habitat on the
Moon, then another on Mars.


Scuttle butt
The moon base is already scrapped, and the new Hubble telescope is going
to turn its new equipment on Mars, and check the isotope ratios of that
methane gas.

If the isotope ratios indicate a biological origin (life on Mars) rather
than a geologic origin (by comparing carbon 13/carbon 12 ratios) then
we're going to Mars and skipping the moon.
/Scuttle butt

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question and you want it answered, repeat it for them.
  #2  
Old May 31st 09, 11:02 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station,sci.military.naval
BradGuth
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Posts: 21,544
Default .......So America can become the next energy "Saudi Arabia"!

On May 29, 9:23*am, Marvin the Martian wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2009 22:43:35 -0400, Jonathan wrote:
"Jonathan" wrote in message
m...


This August, the Augustine Commision will report it's review of NASA to
President Obama.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1733782/


norm_augustine_to_review_the_vision.html?singlepag e=true&cat=15



What will it decide? An entirely new direction for NASA?


Or will it just try to squeeze a lemon, and revamp/delay the current
"Vision for Space Exploration", newly renamed Constellation. Which is
to devote the next fifty years or so building a small habitat on the
Moon, then another on Mars.


Scuttle butt
The moon base is already scrapped, and the new Hubble telescope is going
to turn its new equipment on Mars, and check the isotope ratios of that
methane gas.

If the isotope ratios indicate a biological origin (life on Mars) rather
than a geologic origin (by comparing carbon 13/carbon 12 ratios) then
we're going to Mars and skipping the moon.
/Scuttle butt

--
Flamer & Trolls happily killfiled, as they should. No one should have to
tolerate their abuse. If a flamer should get luck and ask an intelligent
question and you want it answered, repeat it for them.


I'm certainly glad that you're paying for it and not me. Mars is
terrific for those rad-hard robotics, that is as long as they don't
hardly weigh anything.

Getting 100 tonnes or even 10 tonnes safely on the deck without
creating an artificial crater will have to be your next trick. Do let
us know in another decade as to how that privately funded (meaning
taxable) fly-by-rocket lander progress is going.

btw, if Hubble puts more than 0.1% of it's valuable time on Mars,
it'll be a waste.

Why not instead do with Hubble what the Big Energy foiled OCO mission
was supposed to accomplish?

~ BG
  #3  
Old June 1st 09, 02:52 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station,sci.military.naval
Jonathan
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Posts: 215
Default .......So America can become the next energy "Saudi Arabia"!


"Marvin the Martian" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 30 May 2009 22:43:35 -0400, Jonathan wrote:

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...


This August, the Augustine Commission will report it's review of NASA to
President Obama.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1733782/

norm_augustine_to_review_the_vision.html?singlepag e=true&cat=15


What will it decide? An entirely new direction for NASA?

Or will it just try to squeeze a lemon, and revamp/delay the current
"Vision for Space Exploration", newly renamed Constellation. Which is
to devote the next fifty years or so building a small habitat on the
Moon, then another on Mars.


Scuttle butt
The moon base is already scrapped,



That would be very welcome. Who needs a program that's very wasteful
and expensive, and will only drag NASA down?


and the new Hubble telescope is going
to turn its new equipment on Mars, and check the isotope ratios of that
methane gas.



That's a hot debate, with biological sources with a slight lead last
I heard.


If the isotope ratios indicate a biological origin (life on Mars) rather
than a geologic origin (by comparing carbon 13/carbon 12 ratios) then
we're going to Mars and skipping the moon.
/Scuttle butt


So NOT WAIT for the MSL? Hmm...a "rush to judgment" on the
question of simple life on Mars? That's a mistake, the uncertainty
is what drives curiosity, once we know...well...what's the point
of pursuing the question much further?

I think a good case can be made by those on both sides of the
aisle. If life is there, it's hidden and sparse, so geological processes
still dominate. I believe that debate will remain inconclusive with
no smoking gun likely to be found. So, kinda the whole missing
WMD's in Iraq, if we make the claim life is there to justify a
manned mission, we better be sure. That isn't likely to happen
imho.

The results should continue to be inconclusive.
Consistently, relentlessly even intriguingly inconclusive.
An elegant tie between geology and biology.
Hinting that Mars may have taken a step towards life, but
not quite creating it. Some 'missing link' between geology
and biology that defies a complete explanation by either
discipline. Missing links like maybe the banded iron formations
on earth, and various mineral concretions that can be created
by either geology and life. An ecosystem competing between
forces for disorder such as erosion processes, or where inverse
square laws govern each component. And the steadily increasing
and cyclic order of life, which likes to follow power laws with
global system behavior.

The former is geology, the latter life. But an object which is
equal parts of both, so that neither explanation wins, is the
'missing link' or source of first life.....imho of course.

Maybe this missing link would have the components of
geology, but the form only of life. Are anomalous concentrations
of heavy metals the deposits of some bacteria? Or just
an odd stroke of various chemical or erosion forces?

Those spheres on Mars? They are just too pristine to be
the result of processes spanning geologic time. Water
certainly was involved, yet they're made up entirely of
simple silicon and iron, just geology. There's just no
neat and tidy explanation for them yet. I think this situation
will continue and is a huge clue.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...nity_m014.html

http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/136...5L7L7.jpg.html

http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/012...5L5L6.jpg.html


But a manned mission to Mars is a mistake, the rovers will have
given the public all they care to see of Mars and then some
decades before men ever get to Mars. We'll know what we
want long before a manned mission could get there.

Exploring is for robots.

Exploiting space, building and making money in space is
for humans. Doing it the other way around, sending men
to the distant reaches, on pure science missions, just
isn't logical. Robots are just five times faster, cheaper
and almost as good. It's a simple fact of nature we must accept.
Else reduce ourselves to nothing more than following only
our instincts and pursue colonizing, like moths to a flame.

The manned space program needs a reason for existing.
A reason designed to return clearly tangible and /large/
benefits to society in the near and distant future.
Pure science is the opposite of all that.

Space Solar Power is a perfectly good use of humans in
space. Building something meant to be central solution
to climate change and fossil fuel dependence is the
best reason I can possibly imagine.


Jonathan




--
Flamer & Trolls happily killfiled, as they should. No one should have to
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question and you want it answered, repeat it for them.






 




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