Venus for dummies (6.0) / Brad Guth (GuthVenus)

On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

On Oct 8, 10:57*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:


Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:


Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?


None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

On Oct 9, 6:06*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:









On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several
alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly
hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite
airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare.

Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't
possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer?

Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and
highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway?

On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:









On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several
alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly
hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite
airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare.

Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't
possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer?

Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and
highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway?


I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe.
I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process.

Sylvia.

On Oct 9, 6:52*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote:









On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several
alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly
hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite
airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare.

Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't
possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer?

Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and
highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway?

I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe.
I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process.

Sylvia.

My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary
travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn
good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or
infiltrate almost anywhere.

For all I know, most of what is represented by GuthVenus is the result
of advanced robotics doing their thing.
“Guth Venus” 1:1, plus 10x resample/enlargement of the area in
question:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1027362...79402364691314

http://groups.google.com/groups/search
http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/”Guth Venus”

On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote:









On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several
alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly
hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite
airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare.

Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't
possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer?

Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and
highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway?

I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe.
I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process.

Sylvia.

My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary
travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn
good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or
infiltrate almost anywhere.

That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have
no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing
that the required technology is even capable of existing.

Some things may well be impossible.

Sylvia

On Oct 9, 7:08*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote:









On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several
alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly
hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite
airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare.

Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't
possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer?

Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and
highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway?

I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe.
I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process.

Sylvia.

My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary
travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn
good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or
infiltrate almost anywhere.

That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have
no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing
that the required technology is even capable of existing.

Some things may well be impossible.

Sylvia

I never said nor having insisted that we humans currently have all
that it would take. However, by the time we've established ourselves
with interplanetary travel, there's a pretty darn good chance that
we'd have developed the technology necessary for dealing with Venus,
and then some.

With loads of spare/surplus energy that's essentially renewable, what
can't be accomplished?

On 10/10/2012 1:30 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Oct 9, 7:08 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote:









On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several
alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly
hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite
airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare.

Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't
possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer?

Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and
highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway?

I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe.
I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process.

Sylvia.

My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary
travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn
good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or
infiltrate almost anywhere.

That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have
no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing
that the required technology is even capable of existing.

Some things may well be impossible.

Sylvia

I never said nor having insisted that we humans currently have all
that it would take. However, by the time we've established ourselves
with interplanetary travel, there's a pretty darn good chance that
we'd have developed the technology necessary for dealing with Venus,
and then some.

With loads of spare/surplus energy that's essentially renewable, what
can't be accomplished?


OK, I really should have known better.

Sylvia.

On Oct 10, 3:02*am, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 1:30 PM, Brad Guth wrote:









On Oct 9, 7:08 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 1:03 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 9, 6:52 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 12:51 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 9, 6:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/10/2012 6:21 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Oct 8, 10:57 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 4/10/2012 9:42 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Of any humanoids or other intelligent species that's capable of
surviving interstellar treks, at least technically should have no
problems with remaining stealthy or even capable of infiltrating and
mingle within any community of existing life-forms upon any given
planet they chose to study or even to populate and commercialize by
extracting valuable elements in order to suit their own needs.

I don't follow that reasoning at all. You're attempting to extrapolate
from some, ex hypothesi feasable, technology to the feasibility of any
other technology that might be useful.

Sylvia.

You seem to be okay with excluding and/or obfuscating known technology
that could be applied, not to mention what any truly interstellar
travel capable intelligence could muster for dealing with that hellish
surface environment of Venus or that of infiltrating our planet.

Secondly, according to others even of your very own kind, Venus wasn't
always as extremely hot, because our sun was originally a much cooler
star by at least -25%.

BTW; true science is always about extrapolations and otherwise it's
extensively a subjective methodology of trial and error on behalf of
figuring out or interpreting new stuff. *Sorry if that's upsetting
you.

Are you suggesting, if we mange to get our species of humans onto
another planet or substantial moon that's already populated by complex
lifeforms, that some of us wouldn't bother to exploit that new world
in order to suit their own goals or hidden agendas?

None of which addresses the point that I raised.

Sylvia.

Not really, as over the past decade I've pointed out several
alternatives for accommodating advanced intelligence on that hellishly
hot surface (especially when accommodated within those rigid composite
airship-shuttles), with resources and energy to spare.

Are you suggesting that the best expertise and technology can't
possibly deal with whatever the planet Venus has to offer?

Are you also suggesting that Venus L2 isn't sufficiently cool and
highly desirable as an outpost/oasis gateway?

I'm not saying anything about Venus, or any other place in the Universe.
I'm raising doubts about your reasoning process.

Sylvia.

My deductive reasoning, is that if you were capable of interplanetary
travel (not to mention interstellar capability), there's a pretty darn
good chance that you'll have the expertise and technology to fit in or
infiltrate almost anywhere.

That's a slight weakening of your previous claim that they "should have
no problems," but there's still the difficulty that you're supposing
that the required technology is even capable of existing.

Some things may well be impossible.

Sylvia

I never said nor having insisted that we humans currently have all
that it would take. *However, by the time we've established ourselves
with interplanetary travel, there's a pretty darn good chance that
we'd have developed the technology necessary for dealing with Venus,
and then some.

With loads of spare/surplus energy that's essentially renewable, what
can't be accomplished?

OK, I really should have known better.

Sylvia.

Just because you can't see the benefits or values of intelligence
going off-world, and refuse to accept that any other form of
intelligence other than provided by Earth can't possibly exist, is not
my problem.

Are you further suggesting that any off-world resources of energy is
worthless to us?

What science or laws of physics has local energy as worthless or
undesirable?

How the hell would a interplanetary capable intelligence not
appreciate any planet or moon that offered a surplus of essentially
renewable energy?

Even that moon Io is offering a perfectly good example of where
intelligence could make a go of it, whereas our physically dark and
paramagnetic moon would have to be extensively tunneled into before us
humans could survive on its core energy and internal cache of
elements, along with taking advantage of the 1.4 kw/m2 available to
its naked surface, plus a good amount of bluish illumination and a
little IR via earthshine that shouldn't go to waste.

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Brad Guth,Brad_Guth,Brad.Guth,BradGuth,BG,Guth Usenet/”Guth Venus”