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#21
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$4 billion a month!
Hop David wrote:
Scott Lowther wrote: Alan Erskine wrote: That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new manned Moon program every month. And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs. Prioritise! $1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay. Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001: http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php That, oddly, does not include Social Security, which is as memory serves a bigger chunk than the military. I expect Military and Debt Service to surge even further ahead. Bush cuts taxes and increases spending. He's taking the U.S. deeper into credit card heaven. Here is a cartoon I made depicting this: http://clowder.net/hop/etc./Bush.jpg A masterpiece. A masterpiece of half truths, of course. Cutting tax rates (thank you, Rand) stimulates the economy, and leads the increased tax REVENUES (you know that word, yes?). Fighting "expensive" wars such as Iraq *now*, when we can fight them on our own terms on the enemies territory is, of course, far cheaper than sitting on our asses and waiting for them to destroy American cities. Imagine how much better off Britain would have been had they in 1936 decided to wage an "expensive" war and slap down Hitler, or how much better off the US economy would be had the Clinton administration spent a few extra pennies and taken down bin Laden when given the chance, and thus prevented the hundredss of billions in economic damage due to 9-11. But I guess preventative measures are nowhere near as interesting as simply misrepresnting the situation for political gain, eh? -- Scott Lowther, Engineer "Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's." - Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002 |
#22
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$4 billion a month!
Scott Lowther wrote:
Hop David wrote: Scott Lowther wrote: Alan Erskine wrote: That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new manned Moon program every month. And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs. Prioritise! $1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay. Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001: http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php I believe most of what you call "failed social welfare programs" comes under "Income security" which totaled $228 billion. $48 billion of that is Federal workers retirement and disability which I don't regard as welfare. I believe $180 billion is what we spent on social welfare in 2001. $180 billion is a very distant third behind 2001's military expense (310 billion subtracting military retirement etc.) and Debt service (356 billion). That, oddly, does not include Social Security, which is as memory serves a bigger chunk than the military. Ah, here we go: http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions): Military: 262 nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313 Social Security: 387 Medicare/medicaid: 296 Means-tested entitlements: 104 Other: 112 Now, my math may be a little rusty, but I suspect that $262B is somewhat less than $387B + $296B + $104B. And that $387B + $296B + $104B is rather MORE than $180B. -- Scott Lowther, Engineer "Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's." - Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002 |
#23
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$4 billion a month!
Scott Lowther wrote: Ah, here we go: http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions): Military: 262 nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313 Social Security: 387 Medicare/medicaid: 296 My father-in-law spent most of his life as a heavy equipment operator. My dad worked most of his life in printshops. They both received social security and medicare benefits. Are you saying they were welfare parasites? Means-tested entitlements: 104 Other: 112 Now, my math may be a little rusty, but I suspect that $262B is somewhat less than $387B + $296B + $104B. And that $387B + $296B + $104B is rather MORE than $180B. For the sake of argument I'll accept 787 billion/year going to crackhead welfare cheats. That's about $25000/sec. I believe $25000/sec is rather less than $4 billion/3 seconds. Hop http://clowder.net/hop/index.html |
#24
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$4 billion a month!
Hop David :
Earl Colby Pottinger wrote: Really? I checked the article and I notice that it did not say what the cost of the same people are when they are not deployed. Problem, if the standby costs are $2 billion a month for example then Iraq is not costing $4 billion, it is costing $2 billion a month. Stories like this are inflating the claimed costs, infact depending on the standby costs the increase maybe a very large percentage. Any idea what the real costs are? Earl Colby Pottinger From http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit...e/Spending.asp * The U.S. military budget request for Fiscal Year 2003 was $396.1 billion. * The U.S. military budget request for Fiscal Year 2002 was $343.2 billion. The difference of about 53 billion matches the 1 billion/week claim fairly closely. 2000 was 288.8 billion. Hop http://clowder.net/hop/index.html Alan Erskine pointed me to your link. Thank you very much, before I agree with you I would like to study it over the weekend, but again thank you for your fast reponse, it is a breath of fresh air compare to hot air some people like to past around. (I don't mind if you think I am part of that hot air either, I do post a lot.) Earl Colby Pottinger -- I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos, SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp |
#25
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$4 billion a month!
Hop David :
Scott Lowther wrote: Alan Erskine wrote: That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new manned Moon program every month. And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs. Prioritise! $1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay. Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001: http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php I believe most of what you call "failed social welfare programs" comes under "Income security" which totaled $228 billion. $48 billion of that is Federal workers retirement and disability which I don't regard as welfare. I believe $180 billion is what we spent on social welfare in 2001. $180 billion is a very distant third behind 2001's military expense (310 billion subtracting military retirement etc.) and Debt service (356 billion). I expect Military and Debt Service to surge even further ahead. Bush cuts taxes and increases spending. He's taking the U.S. deeper into credit card heaven. Here is a cartoon I made depicting this: http://clowder.net/hop/etc./Bush.jpg Hop http://clowder.net/hop/index.html Again, while I don't agree with you at the moment, thanks for the additional URL. Earl Colby Pottinger -- I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos, SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp |
#26
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$4 billion a month!
Scott Lowther :
Scott Lowther wrote: Hop David wrote: Scott Lowther wrote: Alan Erskine wrote: That's how much Iraq is costing just the U.S. - almost enough for a new manned Moon program every month. And about three seconds worth of failed social welfare programs. Prioritise! $1.33 billion/sec for social welfare programs. Okaaaay. Here's a nice pie chart of FY 2001: http://www.assmotax.org/Data/fedbud.php I believe most of what you call "failed social welfare programs" comes under "Income security" which totaled $228 billion. $48 billion of that is Federal workers retirement and disability which I don't regard as welfare. I believe $180 billion is what we spent on social welfare in 2001. $180 billion is a very distant third behind 2001's military expense (310 billion subtracting military retirement etc.) and Debt service (356 billion). That, oddly, does not include Social Security, which is as memory serves a bigger chunk than the military. Ah, here we go: http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions): Military: 262 nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313 Social Security: 387 Medicare/medicaid: 296 Means-tested entitlements: 104 Other: 112 Now, my math may be a little rusty, but I suspect that $262B is somewhat less than $387B + $296B + $104B. And that $387B + $296B + $104B is rather MORE than $180B. Thanks, Still more useful information. I see I am going to be doing a lot of reading this weekend. To those of you out there who wonder why I am acting this way, it is simple - Atleast David and Scott are suppling figures behind their beliefs. Too many time this group is filled with people who claim that thier way is best without post any numbers to back thier claims. Numbers can be made to lie, but you can only twist them so far before it stands out that you are making false claims. Here I get a chance to review and make up my own mind. I just wish more space.policy threads supplied numbers with thier arguements. Earl Colby Pottinger -- I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos, SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp |
#27
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$4 billion a month!
Hop David wrote:
Scott Lowther wrote: Ah, here we go: http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions): Military: 262 nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313 Social Security: 387 Medicare/medicaid: 296 My father-in-law spent most of his life as a heavy equipment operator. My dad worked most of his life in printshops. They both received social security and medicare benefits. Are you saying they were welfare parasites? Yep. My grandparents also recieved SS checks. Parasites on the workers they were. Unintentionally, to be sure, and under the false assumption that they were simply getting back the money they paid in. Sadly, what they were getting was the money that *current* workers are paying in in, in ever increasing quantities. Social Securitry is a disaster waiting to happen, with no really good answers... but continueing to gray the populace and increasign to tax the workers is not a long-term viable option. At some point it will collapse, and we'll try something else. -- Scott Lowther, Engineer "Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's." - Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002 |
#28
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$4 billion a month!
Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:
I just wish more space.policy threads supplied numbers with thier arguements. Now, what would be the fun in that? -- Scott Lowther, Engineer "Any statement by Edward Wright that starts with 'You seem to think that...' is wrong. Always. It's a law of Usenet, like Godwin's." - Jorge R. Frank, 11 Nov 2002 |
#29
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$4 billion a month!
Scott Lowther wrote: Hop David wrote: Scott Lowther wrote: Ah, here we go: http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html For 1999 actual numbers ($Billions): Military: 262 nonDoD Discrectioanry: 313 Social Security: 387 Medicare/medicaid: 296 My father-in-law spent most of his life as a heavy equipment operator. My dad worked most of his life in printshops. They both received social security and medicare benefits. Are you saying they were welfare parasites? Yep. My grandparents also recieved SS checks. Parasites on the workers they were. Unintentionally, to be sure, and under the false assumption that they were simply getting back the money they paid in. Sadly, what they were getting was the money that *current* workers are paying in in, in ever increasing quantities. Social Securitry is a disaster waiting to happen, with no really good answers... but continueing to gray the populace and increasign to tax the workers is not a long-term viable option. At some point it will collapse, and we'll try something else. Some of problems came from extrapolating trends that didn't hold. The designers of social security didn't anticipate falling birthrates and longer life expectancy. While I don't like subsidizing the crackheads down the street, I certainly don't mind paying social security and medicare even though I may not benefit from either. Hop http://clowder.net/hop/index.html |
#30
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$4 billion a month!
Rand Simberg wrote:
Are you unaware of corporate income tax? Your point being? The tax cuts don't affect corporate tax. It remains at 35%. -- Sander +++ Out of cheese error +++ |
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