In the Dark

On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:14:07 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:
On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:06:18 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:

On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:51:57 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



I am not addressing the usual nuisances who tag themselves on to my responses but rather those who may actually be in a position to realize the seriousness of a situation where astronomy is being driven by a rotating celestial sphere agenda and certainly at its most catastrophic here in the matter of twilight lengths across latitudes. The Cornell idea of putting the Sun in daily stellar circumpolar motion is by no means the only website promoting the angle of descent of the Sun to explain why twilight lengths vary -















http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm















Not only are the true motions of the Earth questioned but even the apparent motion of the Sun comes under assault from the rotating celestial sphere hive making it a pandemic every bit as destructive as a physical ailment insofar as the intellectual version is mindless,uncaring and destructive..















I know reasonable people must visit here occasionally and couldn't stomach the Sun's apparent motion placed in a rotating celestial sphere ideology but it is no use recognizing something as crude and cruel as this and not acting to recover a stable ground where nothing like this ever appears again and certainly not within the academic community. If necessary steal the proper explanation for twilight lengths across latitudes,at least that way we will display some level of intelligence because the alternative is not worth considering.







No, let's consider the alternative. If you consider this to be a serious condition, just what are the consequences?



Let me get something out of the way right off the bat,I don't consider you or Collins nuisances however, when Polaris is used as a focal point for the daily apparent motion of the Sun by putting our parent star in circumpolar motion in order to explain twilight lengths across latitudes then you both cross over into a realm where nobody should ever venture and I ain't going to follow you there -



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm



If you cannot understand what is incredibly embarrassing about that then you become the embarrassment yourself however you will want everyone to continue with the fables of time,space and motion and the 'geniuses' of physics who follow what is basically a rotating celestial sphere cult.



It is not about the politics of 'too big to fail', this is about the tools available to anyone today who love their surroundings and the intimate experience of twilight as a consequence of the rotation of the Earth with another new one to consider where the Earth rotates once per year to the central Sun as a function of its orbital motion.



http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/image...ature_984.html



No matter how difficult it would initially be for any organization or institution, I urge them to borrow the dynamics needed to explain something as intimate and simple as twilight lengths across latitudes .





































How is your life or my life changed by all of this otherwise well-accepted 'bad science'? A vast majority of folks walking around every day on this planet are completely unaware of sidereal rotation, twilight lengths, the moon's rotation or non-rotation, aphelions, perihelions, the rotational speed of the Earth, the equation of time, superior or inferior retrogrades, angle of sunset, and any of dozens of other phenomena of which you constantly complain. As far as I can tell, their lives are not now, and never will be, affected one way or another. Catastrophic? Hardly...







So, answer this single question. In the famous words of you-know-who...







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt_gr1zah14

Suffice it to say, you don't know what you don't know. You can't ever answer the simplest of questions.

On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:14:07 PM UTC-6, oriel36 wrote:

you both cross over into a realm where nobody should ever venture and I
ain't going to follow you there -

And shall we credit Yog-Sothoth with opening the gate to that realm?

the 'geniuses' of physics who follow what is basically a rotating celestial
sphere cult.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh R'lyeh Chtulhu fhtagn it is, then.

John Savard

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:37:18 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:14:07 PM UTC-6, oriel36 wrote:

you both cross over into a realm where nobody should ever venture and I
ain't going to follow you there -

And shall we credit EDIT with opening the gate to that realm?

the 'geniuses' of physics who follow what is basically a rotating celestial
sphere cult.

EDIT it is, then.

John Savard

If only this were Professor Oriel's Last Lecture...or maybe he already gave it?

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:20:33 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:14:07 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:06:18 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:



On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:51:57 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:







I am not addressing the usual nuisances who tag themselves on to my responses but rather those who may actually be in a position to realize the seriousness of a situation where astronomy is being driven by a rotating celestial sphere agenda and certainly at its most catastrophic here in the matter of twilight lengths across latitudes. The Cornell idea of putting the Sun in daily stellar circumpolar motion is by no means the only website promoting the angle of descent of the Sun to explain why twilight lengths vary -































http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm































Not only are the true motions of the Earth questioned but even the apparent motion of the Sun comes under assault from the rotating celestial sphere hive making it a pandemic every bit as destructive as a physical ailment insofar as the intellectual version is mindless,uncaring and destructive.































I know reasonable people must visit here occasionally and couldn't stomach the Sun's apparent motion placed in a rotating celestial sphere ideology but it is no use recognizing something as crude and cruel as this and not acting to recover a stable ground where nothing like this ever appears again and certainly not within the academic community. If necessary steal the proper explanation for twilight lengths across latitudes,at least that way we will display some level of intelligence because the alternative is not worth considering.















No, let's consider the alternative. If you consider this to be a serious condition, just what are the consequences?







Let me get something out of the way right off the bat,I don't consider you or Collins nuisances however, when Polaris is used as a focal point for the daily apparent motion of the Sun by putting our parent star in circumpolar motion in order to explain twilight lengths across latitudes then you both cross over into a realm where nobody should ever venture and I ain't going to follow you there -







http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm







If you cannot understand what is incredibly embarrassing about that then you become the embarrassment yourself however you will want everyone to continue with the fables of time,space and motion and the 'geniuses' of physics who follow what is basically a rotating celestial sphere cult.







It is not about the politics of 'too big to fail', this is about the tools available to anyone today who love their surroundings and the intimate experience of twilight as a consequence of the rotation of the Earth with another new one to consider where the Earth rotates once per year to the central Sun as a function of its orbital motion.







http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/image...ature_984.html







No matter how difficult it would initially be for any organization or institution, I urge them to borrow the dynamics needed to explain something as intimate and simple as twilight lengths across latitudes .











































































How is your life or my life changed by all of this otherwise well-accepted 'bad science'? A vast majority of folks walking around every day on this planet are completely unaware of sidereal rotation, twilight lengths, the moon's rotation or non-rotation, aphelions, perihelions, the rotational speed of the Earth, the equation of time, superior or inferior retrogrades, angle of sunset, and any of dozens of other phenomena of which you constantly complain. As far as I can tell, their lives are not now, and never will be, affected one way or another. Catastrophic? Hardly...















So, answer this single question. In the famous words of you-know-who....















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt_gr1zah14



Suffice it to say, you don't know what you don't know. You can't ever answer the simplest of questions.

If they had shown a picture of a flat Earth it would be less offensive than the idea of the Sun in circumpolar motion -

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

People are better than this,they can easily appreciate why twilight varies across latitudes and how come there are two types of twilight events where one happens daily and the other at the Equinoxes due to daily and orbital motions of the Earth with their respective characteristics.

Irrational behavior has never been defeated by appealing to those who promote irrational thinking,it can only be undone by demonstrating how these new visual narratives shine with new insights and methods while simultaneously undoing poor judgments and conclusions.

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:36:36 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

Actually, that is a terrific article, its explanation is clear and concise and can be easily understood by just about everyone. ALMOST everyone...

You have made a career of linking to some great images, videos and articles... and then completely misinterpreting them! If only you had actually learned something... so sad...

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:34:48 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:36:36 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm



Actually, that is a terrific article, its explanation is clear and concise and can be easily understood by just about everyone. ALMOST everyone...



Even the RA/Dec system only goes so far in using the apparent annual motion of the Sun through the celestial sphere but putting the Sun in daily circumpolar motion using Polaris and its Southern equivalent as a focal point is intellectual nadir.

The annual motion of the stars along the orbital plane and their apparent motion which affirms the orbital motion of the Earth as they disappear behind the Sun and its glare in sequence is an antidote to celestial sphere notions by fixing the Sun as central and then referencing rotation to our central star including the relationship of surface North/South poles at a constant distance to the orbital plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ

The constant axial orientation of the Earth to Polaris across an annual orbit is meant to determine the orbital behavior of the Earth as the surface turns once to the central Sun as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth for then hemispherical changes in declination of the Sun is accounted for by a motion now taken up by the notion of axial precession -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preces...precession.svg


The twilight at the upcoming September Equinox will be a consequence of the planet turning as a function of its orbital motion and carrying the surface at the North pole through the circle of illumination.

What must it take to actually sit down and go to the trouble of putting the Sun in circumpolar motion to explain twilight lengths across latitudes when simple correlation between latitudinal speeds of the surface and twilight lengths do the job so easy ?.





























You have made a career of linking to some great images, videos and articles... and then completely misinterpreting them! If only you had actually learned something... so sad...

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:21:10 AM UTC-6, wrote:

If only this were Professor Oriel's Last Lecture...or maybe he already gave it?

Ah, your reference is to the Night Gallery episode "Professor Peabody's Last Lecture".

Well, clearly Oriel will have nothing to do with Starry Wisdom.

John Savard

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:34:15 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

Well, clearly Oriel will have nothing to do with Starry Wisdom.

I see that the Church of Starry Wisdom has to do with Nyarlathotep... who has recently been trying to present a better face to humanity...

http://www.crunchyroll.com/nyarko-sa...crawling-chaos

John Savard

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:34:48 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

You have made a career of linking to some great images, videos and articles... and then completely misinterpreting them! If only you had actually learned something... so sad...

What would Sir Isaac say my dear Paul,after all, his attempt to create modeling out of observations hinges of the annual motion of the Sun around the Earth within the predictive framework of RA/Dec and not the daily motion of the Sun around the Earth using the same framework as today's folk have it -

"That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean distances from the sun.
This proportion, first observed by Kepler, is now received by all astronomers; for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth, or the earth about the sun" Newton

The thing is that for all the hype about absolute/relative this and that they made one hundred years ago , you never understood your own clockwork solar system based on RA/Dec. I would admit that the resolution of the differences between the predictive side of astronomy as opposed to interpretative side was a tough nut to crack involving only the annual motion of the Sun through the Zodiac in its predictive form in contrast to the annual motion of the stars behind the Sun in its more accurate interpretative form .

A decade ago when I dealt with these matters there were hardly any visual narratives to aid understanding whereas today Alsing,you can easily come to understand the older idea of the Sun through the Zodiac and indeed the empirical mutations of the Sun's annual motion through a celestial sphere is quite distinct from any perception of the horrible notion of the Sun in daily circumpolar motion.

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:34:48 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:36:36 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm



Actually, that is a terrific article, its explanation is clear and concise and can be easily understood by just about everyone. ALMOST everyone...


I see all the magnification hobbyists cling to the size and price of their telescopes as if this was going to save them from the empirical fiasco where they adhere to the idea of the Sun in circumpolar motion around the Earth each day as a vehicle for explaining twilight lengths across latitudes while also promoting a different RA/Dec version of the Sun's motion through the same celestial sphere for the predictive framework which constitutes the predictive foundations of the vicious strain of empiricism that emerged in the late 17th century.

You are fine,perhaps too many cocktail hours and a mistaken belief that you are something more than a magnification hobbyist, however that celestial sphere contrivance is blocking would-be observers from going outside and putting context to those observations which enthralled all astronomers before magnification equipment emerged.

Anyway it saves me in future from watching you enter a thread with all guns blazing and then withdrawing meekly as you have just done and with good reason.

The magic of twilight begins and ends with the rotation and orbital motion of the Earth depending on which twilight is being discussed. It is how astronomy is done in the 21st century.