In the Dark

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:50:46 AM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:


At the Norm Pole couple of days after the spring equinox the sum appears to

circle the horizon daily - fact!

In East Anglia where you live,the Sun will move from horizon to horizon with its familiar arc known to all people in all ages with variations in the seasonal arcs,again, known to all people since remote antiquity.

http://www.astronomy.org/programs/se...ing-sun-sm.gif

The 'achievement' of your celestial sphere cult is to place Polaris the opposite side of those arcs for daily rotation thereby defying even geocentric observations of the motion of the Sun in respect to the local horizon and Polaris.

So, living in an era where there is a cult which gives the Sun an unnatural arc from horizon to horizon by placing it in circumpolar motion represents the end of astronomy and its relationship to terrestrial sciences and perhaps the saddest episode in human history -

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

How a society supports ideologies where even the apparent motion of the Sun and its positional relationship to the horizon and to Polaris is challenged is not an issue I can answer.


















At the North Pole polaris appears directly overhand - fact!

Do you deny these facts?

So at the North Pole the sun appears to travel daily in a circle

surrounding polaris - fact!

You have to answer these questions for your theories to be accepted.

Insults and misdirection will not do.

Your turn now!

Theories indeed !, these are actual observations of the motion of the Sun in respect to the local horizon

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:37:47 AM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:



Watching the path of the Sun from horizon to horizon over the course of 6

months from the Western isles of Europe,the arc of the Sun gets

progressively smaller from June to December with the Sun rising in the

South East and setting in the South West at its smallest arc.For anyone

to imagine the Sun in circumpolar motion around that small arc with

Polaris at the center outdoes even the inability to assign cause for the

daily rising and setting of the Sun.



The sun appears to be circumpolar about both poles. In the winter that

small arc you see is centred on the south celestial pole.

The premise of your celestial sphere ideology is that the Sun is in circumpolar around Polaris and retains the same arc as you move down towards lower latitudes and eventually at the Equator hence the unnatural arcs -

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

The apparent motion of the Sun,its actual arc and the seasonal variations in those arcs at any given latitude are in the opposite direction to circumpolar motion hence Polaris is never at the center of those arcs -

http://www.why.do/wp-content/uploads...n-the-west.jpg

I am not even discussing the dynamics of the Earth responsible for the apparent daily and seasonal motions of the Sun,the discussion is the observed apparent motion of the Sun and you can't even manage that !.

Maybe a person with common sense will recognize the two twilight events corresponding to two separate dynamics and surface rotations to the central Sun but when even the apparent motions of the Sun are challenged then the issue becomes something else.












(it's also

centred on polaris but your limited powers of visualisation do not allow

you to imagine 3 dimensions)



And please note that in June the Sun rises in the northwest.

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:37:47 AM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:



Watching the path of the Sun from horizon to horizon over the course of 6

months from the Western isles of Europe,the arc of the Sun gets

progressively smaller from June to December with the Sun rising in the

South East and setting in the South West at its smallest arc.For anyone

to imagine the Sun in circumpolar motion around that small arc with

Polaris at the center outdoes even the inability to assign cause for the

daily rising and setting of the Sun.



The sun appears to be circumpolar about both poles. In the winter that

small arc you see is centred on the south celestial pole. (it's also

centred on polaris but your limited powers of visualisation do not allow

you to imagine 3 dimensions)


"The farther south we go toward the equator, the lower Polaris appears in the sky and the longer the night-that is, the longer the Sun stays below the horizon and the steeper the angle it makes with the horizon as it sets and, consequently, the shorter the twilight."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

When I look at the arcs of the Sun attributed to mid latitudes in the Northern hemisphere with Polaris at the center and extended to the Equatorial and Polar latitudes, the reasoning looks like it came from an asylum even though it is accepted within the academic culture as 'fact'.

When you find yourself tampering with apparent motions of the Sun to the local horizon and to the position of Polaris you are effectively reaching intellectual and observational nadir. There is nowhere left for you all to go within the celestial sphere descriptions of the motion of the Sun let along the dynamics of the Earth.

It also finishes me here in this forum for the same point in principle that I wouldn't converse with those who move easily from astronomy to science fiction. Why you do this to yourselves is anyone's guess but that students are subject to your notions is quite a different matter but effectively you are stuck with conceptual and perceptual nadir .






And please note that in June the Sun rises in the northwest.

oriel36 wrote:

For the last time - the Sun's daily arc from horizon to horizon scribes an
opposite arc to circumpolar motion -

http://www.why.do/wp-content/uploads...n-the-west.jpg

http://www.photosbykev.com/wordpress...master_web.jpg

The first link shows the view south with the sun rising in the east and
setting in the west.

The second link is a north - facing view of the Black Rock lighthouse on
Anglesey.
At the right of the image behind Puffin Island stars are rising in the east
and will set in the west.
Just behind Puffin Island is the glow of the sun which is about to rise in
the northeast and set in the northwest.
Your images show just the opposite of what you claim.
You need to understand that the images are mapping a three-dimensional view
onto a two dimensional screen.
Had you chosen a south-facing star trail you could see the same arc as the
daily motion of the sun.

All the stars, planets and other astronomical objects appear to be in
circumpolar motion due to the rotation of the Earth.
You can consider this motion to be about the north or south celestial pole
but in fact these are equivalent since there is only one Earth rotating on
it's axis.

On Friday, August 8, 2014 8:55:03 AM UTC-6, Mike Collins wrote:

All the stars, planets and other astronomical objects appear to be in
circumpolar motion due to the rotation of the Earth.
You can consider this motion to be about the north or south celestial pole
but in fact these are equivalent since there is only one Earth rotating on
it's axis.

But, but... Polaris isn't on the Ecliptic! Which is why, I suppose, Oriel considers putting the Sun as going around Polaris, in any way, shape, or form, as more evil than having the Sun go around the Earth.

To get it across to him that we don't mean that, that "circumpolar motion" is his word for the common apparent daily motion of the stars resulting from the rotation of the Earth, and so all we're saying is that the rotation of the Earth affects how we see the Sun as well as how we see the stars... however, would doubtless be difficult, if it were even possible.

And yet he seems perfectly capable of understanding this kind of thing. But he has it fixed in our minds that we're disciples of Newton, hence there's no use in listening to anything we say, as we are evil deceivers.

John Savard

On Friday, August 8, 2014 3:55:03 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:

All the stars, planets and other astronomical objects appear to be in

circumpolar motion due to the rotation of the Earth.


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

To doctor images showing the apparent motion of the Sun in circumpolar motion with greater arcs towards the Equator in order to draw a conclusion about twilight lengths is a sign of a cult ,no more or no less. There have been growing attempts by participants here to show themselves to be humble magnification guys discussing their equipment but they are not hobbyists and they certainly are no astronomers.

Your celestial sphere cult defies observations in that the arc of the Sun daily from horizon to horizon scribes an opposite arc to circumpolar motion and this is absolutely certain when dealing with the seasonal variations in that arc -

http://www.astronomy.org/programs/se...ing-sun-sm.gif

I consider you a mob now rather than individuals insofar as the visual narratives dictate what the apparent motions actually are (not even the translations of those motions into daily and orbital dynamics) and you still believe in the circumpolar motion of the Sun and an unnatural arc from horizon to horizon.

On Friday, August 8, 2014 3:55:03 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:



For the last time - the Sun's daily arc from horizon to horizon scribes an

opposite arc to circumpolar motion -



http://www.why.do/wp-content/uploads...n-the-west.jpg



http://www.photosbykev.com/wordpress...master_web.jpg



The first link shows the view south with the sun rising in the east and

setting in the west.



The second link is a north - facing view of the Black Rock lighthouse on

Anglesey.

At the right of the image behind Puffin Island stars are rising in the east

and will set in the west.

Just behind Puffin Island is the glow of the sun which is about to rise in

the northeast and set in the northwest.

Your images show just the opposite of what you claim.

You need to understand that the images are mapping a three-dimensional view

onto a two dimensional screen.

Had you chosen a south-facing star trail you could see the same arc as the

daily motion of the sun.


What makes you people without honor ,intelligence or integrity is that the basis for the Sun in circumpolar motion is how Polaris is seen from Polar to Equatorial latitudes using the the Sun's apparent circumpolar arc and the unnatural angle of descent to the local horizon -

"The farther south we go toward the equator, the lower Polaris appears in the sky and the longer the night-that is, the longer the Sun stays below the horizon and the steeper the angle it makes with the horizon as it sets and, consequently, the shorter the twilight."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm


Your celestial sphere cult is not only defying basic common sense but more importantly the visual observations of the apparent motion of the Sun including the seasonal arcs which scribe a motion in the opposite direction to circumpolar motion and certainly never using Polaris at the center of the apparent motion of the Sun with the local horizon.

Putting astronomy in the hands of cultists is like putting nuclear weapons in the hands of irresponsible people for the damage that it is doing through the education system is incredible . I simply cannot imagine why anyone could much less would try to describe an unnatural daily arc of the Sun with Polaris at the center and it is not that your cult believes it to be the case but that nobody else has seen it as the horror that it actually is.














All the stars, planets and other astronomical objects appear to be in

circumpolar motion due to the rotation of the Earth.

You can consider this motion to be about the north or south celestial pole

but in fact these are equivalent since there is only one Earth rotating on

it's axis.

On Friday, August 8, 2014 3:55:03 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:


http://www.why.do/wp-content/uploads...n-the-west.jpg

Your images show just the opposite of what you claim.

You need to understand that the images are mapping a three-dimensional view

onto a two dimensional screen.

Had you chosen a south-facing star trail you could see the same arc as the

daily motion of the sun.


I let you off far too easy with your stupid nonsense insofar as the Sun never moves in circumpolar motion for an observer in the Northern hemisphere looking South towards the Equator.

The observer in the Southern hemisphere looking North towards the Equator will see the Sun scribe an arc in the opposite direction to the Southern equivalent of Polaris but for the equivalent latitude to the Northern hemisphere, the arc of the Sun will be greater in December while the observer in the Northern latitude sees the shorter arc -

http://www.astronomy.org/programs/se...ing-sun-sm.gif

To reject the observations of the apparent motion of the Sun's daily arc and its seasonal variations for an utterly mindless idea of the Sun in circumpolar motion in order to draw a conclusion for twilight lengths is intellectual and astronomical nadir.

In the absence of any sense of responsibility and intelligence I leave you with your hopeless celestial sphere notions with nowhere to go.





All the stars, planets and other astronomical objects appear to be in

circumpolar motion due to the rotation of the Earth.

You can consider this motion to be about the north or south celestial pole

but in fact these are equivalent since there is only one Earth rotating on

it's axis.