Shuttle based lunar vehicle

I have a feeling that now that we have had a couple of shuttle
accidents we are moving away from the shuttle too eagerly.

If I had to go to the Moon today, I would try to work as much as
possible with the systems we have, like for example the shuttle.

It would probably make sense to build a lunar access vehicle that
would be launched from the shuttle's cargo bay and would go to the
moon and land, then come back. The mass ratio requirement for such a
vehicle is such that it is doable in a single stage. Since this is
done in space, perhaps ion engines could be used for orbital changes,
like trans lunar injection. This would involve spiraling out to get to
the Moon's orbit. A mass ratio of 5 would be enough to land on the
Moon and take off to lunar orbit.

Existing expandables could be used to launch supplies habitats etc in
the same general area on the surface of the Moon. These supplies could
also be flown with ion engines.

The astronauts could gather the supplies from the neighborhood of the
lunar base using rover vehicles.

I guess my point is that once we have people in orbit it is not such a
big deal to put them onto the Moon. The mass ratio/delta V
requirements are reasonable. We would just need to design something
like a LEM.

Zoltan

(Zoltan Szakaly) writes:

I have a feeling that now that we have had a couple of shuttle
accidents we are moving away from the shuttle too eagerly.

The Scuttle has almost _NOTHING_ going in its favor except that it's
a devil that we know, as opposed to a devil that we don't know.
Furthermore, given the CAIB's recommendation of a _COMPLETE_ flight
recertification of the Scuttles before they is allowed to fly again,
it is not impossible that no Scuttle may _EVER_ fly again !!!


If I had to go to the Moon today, I would try to work as much as
possible with the systems we have, like for example the shuttle.

Why? What possible benefit could you gain buy using the Scuttle?
It can only lift payloads of limited mass and size, and once you
subtract the government subsidy, for most payloads expendables
are cheaper and more reliable!


It would probably make sense to build a lunar access vehicle that
would be launched from the shuttle's cargo bay and would go to the
moon and land, then come back.

NASA will probably _NEVER_ allow any chemically fueled rocket booster
inside the Scuttle's cargo bay again. Your tug would have to be launched
with dry tanks, and fueled in orbit --- and NASA also appears to be
noticably frightened of attempting in-orbit fuel transfers.


The mass ratio requirement for such a vehicle is such that it is doable
in a single stage. Since this is done in space, perhaps ion engines could
be used for orbital changes, like trans lunar injection. This would
involve spiraling out to get to the Moon's orbit. A mass ratio of 5 would
be enough to land on the Moon and take off to lunar orbit.

1.) As has been discussed here many times before, such low-thrust
"spiraling" is a _REALLY_ Bad Idea --- the vehicle spends =FAR= too much
time soaking in the Van Allen Belts.

2.) Ion rockets have such a low thrust-to-mass ratio that it is
_PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE_ for an ion-powered rocket to land on the moon
--- so your lunar tug will _HAVE_ to have a chemically fueled rocket
for landing --- and NASA will _NEVER_ allow its fuel in the cargo bay
of a Scuttle.


Existing expandables could be used to launch supplies habitats etc in
the same general area on the surface of the Moon. These supplies could
also be flown with ion engines.

Again, ion engines =CANNOT= be used to land on the Moon; they simply do not
have a large enough thrust-to-mass ratio.


I guess my point is that once we have people in orbit it is not such a
big deal to put them onto the Moon. The mass ratio/delta V requirements
are reasonable. We would just need to design something like a LEM.

Again, NASA would _NEVER_ allow it to be launched in the Scuttle's
cargo pay unless it were launched empty and fueld in orbit ---
and they also appear to be scared of on-orbit refueling.


-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'

Zoltan Szakaly wrote:

I have a feeling that now that we have had a couple of shuttle
accidents we are moving away from the shuttle too eagerly.

If I had to go to the Moon today, I would try to work as much as
possible with the systems we have, like for example the shuttle.

It would probably make sense to build a lunar access vehicle that
would be launched from the shuttle's cargo bay and would go to the
moon and land, then come back. The mass ratio requirement for such a
vehicle is such that it is doable in a single stage. Since this is
done in space, perhaps ion engines could be used for orbital changes,
like trans lunar injection. This would involve spiraling out to get to
the Moon's orbit. A mass ratio of 5 would be enough to land on the
Moon and take off to lunar orbit.

Existing expandables could be used to launch supplies habitats etc in
the same general area on the surface of the Moon. These supplies could
also be flown with ion engines.

The astronauts could gather the supplies from the neighborhood of the
lunar base using rover vehicles.

I guess my point is that once we have people in orbit it is not such a
big deal to put them onto the Moon. The mass ratio/delta V
requirements are reasonable. We would just need to design something
like a LEM.

Zoltan


You aren't the first one to consider such an approach (which also
made the cover of Aviaition Week, at the time)....


http://www.abo.fi/~mlindroo/Station/Slides/sld051e.htm


...and I wonder if elements of this proposal are part of current
offical thinking? Certainly the capsule seems sufficently similar to the
ballistic OSP.



--

You know what to remove, to reply....

For a Space Shuttle (Space Transportation System) variation to be used
for a moon mission, I suggest on not using the Orbiter part,
considering that there are only three orbit capable Orbiters left
anyway, and the plans for now is to use them to finish and service the
ISS.

Instead, I suggest one to focused more on the boosters and the core
stage, in other words, working on something like the Ares launch
vehicle or the Energia launch vehicle.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/ares.htm

http://www.energia.ru/english/energi...e_energia.html

The Solid Rocket Boosters can be refined so that they would be more
powerful or maybe more controllable. Advanced Solid Rocket Motor,
Liquid Rocket Booster, or even the Energia strap-on / Zenit can also
be used instead. The amount of strap-on boosters can be adjusted
according to the cargo's need.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/shueasrm.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/shulelrb.htm

http://www76.pair.com/tjohnson/zenit.html

The Main External Tank should be modified also. While attaching the
shuttle engines at the side of the tank wouldn't cause much
modification, it's much more preferable to attach the engines at
bottom of the tank, much like the Energia. Besides, if the main cargo
will be put in top of the tank instead at its side, it would be much
preferable to have the engines at the bottom.



As for ion engines. These days ion engines are only used for probes,
as for using on manned spacecraft, it's preferable to use them only
for long range mission. For close range mission like to the moon, it's
better to use convetional rocket engines.