US will NOT pay for Soyuz

Who sees the US paying Russia, with them helping Iran?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

Russians help Iran with missile threat to Europe
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 16/10/2005)

Former members of the Russian military have been secretly helping Iran
to acquire technology needed to produce missiles capable of striking
European capitals.

The Russians are acting as go-betweens with North Korea as part of a
multi-million pound deal they negotiated between Teheran and Pyongyang
in 2003. It has enabled Teheran to receive regular clandestine
shipments of top secret missile technology, believed to be channelled
through Russia.



Western intelligence officials believe that the technology will enable
Iran to complete development of a missile with a range of 2,200 miles,
capable of hitting much of Europe. It is designed to carry a 1.2-ton
payload, sufficient for a basic nuclear device.

The revelation raises the stakes in the confrontation between Iran's
Islamic regime and the West - led by the United States and European
countries including Britain.

Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, clashed with Russian
officials over Iran's nuclear programme during a visit to Moscow
yesterday, saying that Teheran must fulfil its obligations under the
Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.

She was later expected to urge President Vladimir Putin to back a
referral of Iran to the United Nations Security Council.



A senior American official said Iran's programme was "sophisticated and
getting larger and more accurate. They have had very much in mind the
payload needed to carry a nuclear weapon.

"I think Putin knows what the Iranians are doing."

Iran is believed to be hiding its weapons development behind its
nuclear power programme, for which it receives Russian support, and has
refused to suspend uranium enrichment or to allow full UN inspections.

John Bolton, the US ambassador to the UN, told BBC2's Newsnight that
Iran was "determined to get nuclear weapons deliverable on ballistic
missiles it can then use to intimidate not only its own region but
possibly to supply to terrorists".

Iran's longest-range missile is the Shahab 3, which, with an 800-mile
range, could hit Israel. The North Korean deal will allow the Iranian
missile to reach targets far into Europe - including Rome, Berlin, and
much of France.

North Korea has developed a missile, the Taepo Dong 2, that could reach
America's west coast, based on the submarine-launched Soviet SSN6.
Modifications allow it to be fired from a land-based transporter and
this technology is being smuggled to Teheran with Russian help.

Russians have provided production facilities, diagrams and operating
instruction so the missile can be built in Iran. Liquid propellant has
been shipped to Iran. Russian specialists have also been sent to Iran
to help development of its Shahab 5 missile project, which the Iranians
hope to have operational by the end of the decade.

9 October 2005: Iran puts radicals in charge of nuclear programme
14 August 2005: By breaking the seals at Isfahan, the Iranian president
has deliberately set up a showdown with the West

It is a shame that macro-politics has to affect micro-politics in this way.



Russians, obviously, for some macro-political reasons have decided that is
beneficial to cooperate with Iran. And naturally to get Iran cooperate with
them on other matters. Easing the situation in Chechnya perhaps?



Micro-politically speaking it would certainly be positive that NASA has an
option of using Soyuz if necessary.



But, I believe that eventually Russian Space Agency will allow NASA to fly
their astronauts on Soyuz and that some compensation will be worked out.
Eventually - whenever that might be - sooner better than later.







Bob Haller wrote:
Who sees the US paying Russia, with them helping Iran?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

Russians help Iran with missile threat to Europe
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 16/10/2005)

Former members of the Russian military have been secretly helping Iran
to acquire technology needed to produce missiles capable of striking
European capitals.

The Russians are acting as go-betweens with North Korea as part of a
multi-million pound deal they negotiated between Teheran and Pyongyang
in 2003. It has enabled Teheran to receive regular clandestine
shipments of top secret missile technology, believed to be channelled
through Russia.



Western intelligence officials believe that the technology will enable
Iran to complete development of a missile with a range of 2,200 miles,
capable of hitting much of Europe. It is designed to carry a 1.2-ton
payload, sufficient for a basic nuclear device.

The revelation raises the stakes in the confrontation between Iran's
Islamic regime and the West - led by the United States and European
countries including Britain.

Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, clashed with Russian
officials over Iran's nuclear programme during a visit to Moscow
yesterday, saying that Teheran must fulfil its obligations under the
Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.

She was later expected to urge President Vladimir Putin to back a
referral of Iran to the United Nations Security Council.



A senior American official said Iran's programme was "sophisticated
and getting larger and more accurate. They have had very much in mind
the payload needed to carry a nuclear weapon.

"I think Putin knows what the Iranians are doing."

Iran is believed to be hiding its weapons development behind its
nuclear power programme, for which it receives Russian support, and
has refused to suspend uranium enrichment or to allow full UN
inspections.

John Bolton, the US ambassador to the UN, told BBC2's Newsnight that
Iran was "determined to get nuclear weapons deliverable on ballistic
missiles it can then use to intimidate not only its own region but
possibly to supply to terrorists".

Iran's longest-range missile is the Shahab 3, which, with an 800-mile
range, could hit Israel. The North Korean deal will allow the Iranian
missile to reach targets far into Europe - including Rome, Berlin, and
much of France.

North Korea has developed a missile, the Taepo Dong 2, that could
reach America's west coast, based on the submarine-launched Soviet
SSN6. Modifications allow it to be fired from a land-based
transporter and this technology is being smuggled to Teheran with
Russian help.

Russians have provided production facilities, diagrams and operating
instruction so the missile can be built in Iran. Liquid propellant has
been shipped to Iran. Russian specialists have also been sent to Iran
to help development of its Shahab 5 missile project, which the
Iranians hope to have operational by the end of the decade.

9 October 2005: Iran puts radicals in charge of nuclear programme
14 August 2005: By breaking the seals at Isfahan, the Iranian
president has deliberately set up a showdown with the West

Bob Haller wrote:

Who sees the US paying Russia, with them helping Iran?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

Russians help Iran with missile threat to Europe


Rice has been going around Europe making the same type of unfounded wild
accusations about Iran that they had been making about Iraq to justify
the destruction and invasion of that country. Of course outside the USA,
those unfounded accusations have 0 credibility. But the gullible
american media won't challenge their government to actually produce
credible evidence oto support their continuous wild accusations and
believe that Iraq has nuclean missiles aimed at the USA , ready to be
lauched with 45 minutes.

As a result, the empty rethoric against Iran will probably make it
impossible for the USA to buy transport from russians.

However, how about just paying $20 million to Space Adventures (isn't
that a US corporation?) to get a US astronaut up to the station ?

I seriously doubt the american public, or congress will allow any more
invasions.

at least I hope so....

In any case it might be best for the US to gift the station to russia
and the partners, ground the shuttle forever, and go build something
new with no other partners.

Russia defies Washington over Iran ties
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 16/10/2005)

It is the new Great Game, and the stakes could not be higher. The more
Washington puts pressure on Iran to come clean about its nuclear
ambitions, the more determined Moscow becomes to ensure that there is
no disruption to its lucrative contract to turn Iran into a nuclear
power.



What is more, as The Sunday Telegraph reports today, former senior
officers in the Russian armed forces are acting as go-betweens to help
Iran to acquire missile technology from North Korea that will enable it
to develop a missile system capable of reaching France.

The revelation will increase anger in Washington and London at Moscow's
support for what the West regards as one of the world's most dangerous
regimes, bent on acquiring nuclear weapons and the means to deliver
them.

The official Russian line is that there is nothing wrong with helping
an ally to develop its energy needs. Iran may be sitting on the world's
second largest known oil reserves, but the Russians fully support
Teheran's desire for alternative energy sources.

Indeed, at the height of the stand-off between Washington and Teheran
last summer over evidence that Iran has a clandestine programme to
build an atom bomb, Moscow announced that it would help the Iranians to
build a further six nuclear power plants in addition to the
controversial Bushehr reactor.

Supplying nuclear technology to Iran is good business for Moscow. The
contract to build Bushehr is worth $1 billion and that is before the
10-year contract to supply nuclear fuel for the reactor is taken into
account.

Nor is Russia's high-tech co-operation with Iran confined to nuclear
power. Last January the Russians signed a contract with Teheran to
build the "Zohreh" communications satellite, to be launched in
mid-2007. Western defence experts believe that the project will help
Iran to acquire further technical expertise on ballistic missile
systems.

Russian officials denied all knowledge of the missile technology deal
between North Korea and Iran when the issue was formally raised by
American diplomats. But Western intelligence believes that the former
Russian army officers involved are working with the tacit support and
approval of the FSB, Russia's foreign intelligence service.

"People who have held senior positions in the Russian military retain
close links to the defence and security establishment long after they
have left," said a senior Western intelligence official. "It is hard to
imagine that this kind of deal could be negotiated without someone in
the Kremlin knowing."

Moscow's determination to maintain its lucrative trade ties with
Teheran explains Russia's reluctance to report Iran to the United
Nations Security Council for its failure to co-operate fully with the
International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna - the world's nuclear
watchdog body that has been trying to make a detailed inspection of
Iran's nuclear facilities for the past two years.

If Iran is reported to the UN for non-compliance, Washington would
immediately call for the imposition of hard-hitting economic sanctions,
with disastrous financial consequences for Moscow. In addition to
having to cancel contracts worth billions of dollars, the Russians
would be obliged to make heavy compensation payments.

But trade is not the only motive for Moscow's determination to maintain
ties with Teheran. It sees the alliance as a bulwark against
Washington's military expansion into central Asia and the Middle East
and the presence of large American troop formations in Iraq and
Afghanistan has prompted closer links.
Russians help Iran with missile threat
















© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2005. Terms & Conditions of
reading.
Commercial information. Privacy and Cookie Policy.

Marko Horvat wrote:
Russians, obviously, for some macro-political reasons have decided that is
beneficial to cooperate with Iran. And naturally to get Iran cooperate with
them on other matters. Easing the situation in Chechnya perhaps?

What Russia and Iran are doing is perfectly legal within the NPT.

The USA obviously had some sort of agenda to drag Russia into its game
of accusing the enemy-du-jour of being a menace to the world. The space
program doesn't have strategic priority from the point of view of the
USA government so losing Russian goodwill with regards to Soyuz isn't
important to the white house.


One possible response from Russia is to assume NASA will launch shuttle
in May 2006 as advertised. The april Soyuz would then bring up one new
russian cremember and 2 passengers and return with Tokarev and the 2
visitors, leaving McArthur on the station with the new russian cremember
(who would become commander). McArthur would return to earth in the
next shuttle flight which would then bring up the next US cremember to
stay on station.

If the Shuttle is delayed, tough luck, McArthur stays up. Eventually,
the USA media would pickup on the story and there would then be pressure
on the americans to pay the russians for a seat back home.

It would probably also add pressure on NASA to launch the shuttle. Seems
to me that the fact that they so conveniently announced that the
Discovery foam loss was due to poor workmanship (as opposed to
design/material) makes iot much easier for NASA to resume flights
without a fix to the foam problem.

They launch one shuttle, find the foam is still falling off and ground
the shuttle indefinitely.

Roscosmos official (Krasnov) has made it clear recently that McArthur
will go back on a Soyuz. There is simply no other way, relying on the
Shuttle at this point is logistical and planning nightmare. Most likely
the russians will just send the bill and then will just keep nagging
the US at every opportunity. As for the next Soyuz I expect the
russians will gladly accept payment in euros, ESA waited in line long
enough.

dmitrik wrote:
the russians will just send the bill and then will just keep nagging
the US at every opportunity. As for the next Soyuz I expect the
russians will gladly accept payment in euros, ESA waited in line long
enough.

At what point in time before Aril 2006 would a final decision be made on
whether the 2nd crew member for exp 13 would be american or european ?

I highly doubt anyone (even the Russians) are interested in just
leaving McArthur up there. What'll likely happen if shuttle fails to
fly is the Expedition 13 crew will be made up of two cosmonauts to
relieve Tokarev and McArthur, there will of course likely be a
passenger who comes up with the new expedition and returns with the old
one.

The question is, will Expedition 13 be made up of two Russians or a
Russian and a European?

-A.L.

John Doe wrote in :

However, how about just paying $20 million to Space Adventures (isn't
that a US corporation?) to get a US astronaut up to the station ?

That will still require an exception or amendment to the INA; the US
government is forbidden from making payments for human spaceflight services
to third parties if there is a "reasonable expectation" that the money will
be passed on to Russia.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.