SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for low cost trips to the Moon.

On Oct 16, 1:32*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 10/15/2010 3:04 PM, Mike DiCenso wrote:

That's because the crew IS the cargo in that configuration along with
their provisions as well as their other gear. I'm a bit skeptical
about this comparison since it neglects the amount of structure
required to keep the crew safe from radiation while going through the
Van Allen Radiation Belt as well as through deep space to the Moon,
and for the duration the capsule is in orbit.

That might be workable; the Apollo CM's hull was thick enough to provide
adequate radiation protection while passing through the radiation belts,
due to speed of the passage at the injection speed for TLI and the
structural strength needed for ascent g's and those experienced during
reentry.
At least in the Constellation plan where the Orion stayed unmanned in
lunar orbit while the Altair carried the crew to the surface for a
month-long stay*, the trick was making the very lightweight Altair have
a reasonable amount of radiation protection if there was a solar storm
while it was on the surface.

*As to what the Altair's crew was going to be doing during the two weeks
of lunar night is anyone's guess. I imagine you could take the rovers
out with headlights on them, but considering that light doesn't get
diffused in a vacuum, that sounds like a really good way to drive over
the edge of a 10' cliff that you thought was a minor dip in the terrain. :-D


In regards to the Dragon being able to perform BEO missions, Elon
Musk, and I presume the SpaceX engineers, believe it can. Elon
mentioned the success of the heat shield on the Dragon reentry about 8
and 1/2 minutes into Wednesday's post flight press conference. He said
the Dragon heat shield was designed to survive even worst case Mars
and lunar return trajectories, and from the performance during the
flight SpaceX is confident it could be used for that purpose. He then
said this opens up possibilities for the Dragon as a potential
replacement for the Orion capsule, presumably for circumlunar
missions:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9MaFqZUQkE

In this portion of the post flight conference about 4 minutes in, in
response to a question Elon says anything the Orion spacecraft can do
the Dragon can do and actually more since the Dragon heat shield is
sufficient for even Mars return trajectories. And therefore he says
for any missions being considered by NASA for the Orion capsule, the
Dragon capsule should also be considered:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOfj-k_Irpc


Bob Clark

On Dec 12, 4:37*am, Robert Clark wrote:
....

*In regards to the Dragon being able to perform BEO missions, Elon
Musk, and I presume the SpaceX engineers, believe it can. Elon
mentioned the success of the heat shield on the Dragon reentry about 8
and 1/2 minutes into Wednesday's post flight press conference. He said
the Dragon heat shield was designed to survive even worst case Mars
and lunar return trajectories, and from the performance during the
flight SpaceX is confident it could be used for that purpose. He then
said this opens up possibilities for the Dragon as a potential
replacement for the Orion capsule, presumably for circumlunar
missions:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9MaFqZUQkE

*In this portion of the post flight conference about 4 minutes in, in
response to a question Elon says anything the Orion spacecraft can do
the Dragon can do and actually more since the Dragon heat shield is
sufficient for even Mars return trajectories. And therefore he says
for any missions being considered by NASA for the Orion capsule, the
Dragon capsule should also be considered:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 4.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOfj-k_Irpc


Another major consideration is the reduced development costs SpaceX
has been able to accomplish compared to the usual way of doing things.
In this part of the post flight news conference a questioner notes the
development cost for Falcon 9, which he implies includes that of the
Dragon, was in the range of $400 million, while for the Orion capsule,
over $4 billion:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOfj-k_Irpc

The comparison might be a little unfair in that SpaceX has said it
might take an additional $300 million to man-rate the Falcon 9 and
Dragon capsule, mostly due to an escape system and flight tests.
But still even then your're talking about multiple times more in
development costs by the "old space" companies.


Bob Clark

On Dec 12, 4:45*am, Robert Clark wrote:
On Dec 12, 4:37*am, Robert Clark wrote:
...







*In regards to the Dragon being able to perform BEO missions, Elon
Musk, and I presume the SpaceX engineers, believe it can. Elon
mentioned the success of the heat shield on the Dragon reentry about 8
and 1/2 minutes into Wednesday's post flight press conference. He said
the Dragon heat shield was designed to survive even worst case Mars
and lunar return trajectories, and from the performance during the
flight SpaceX is confident it could be used for that purpose. He then
said this opens up possibilities for the Dragon as a potential
replacement for the Orion capsule, presumably for circumlunar
missions:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9MaFqZUQkE

*In this portion of the post flight conference about 4 minutes in, in
response to a question Elon says anything the Orion spacecraft can do
the Dragon can do and actually more since the Dragon heat shield is
sufficient for even Mars return trajectories. And therefore he says
for any missions being considered by NASA for the Orion capsule, the
Dragon capsule should also be considered:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 4.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOfj-k_Irpc

Another major consideration is the reduced development costs SpaceX
has been able to accomplish compared to the usual way of doing things.
In this part of the post flight news conference a questioner notes the
development cost for Falcon 9, which he implies includes that of the
Dragon, was in the range of $400 million, while for the Orion capsule,
over $4 billion:

NASA and SpaceX Press Conference After Falcon 9 Launch with Dragon
Aboard Part 4.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOfj-k_Irpc

The comparison might be a little unfair in that SpaceX has said it
might take an additional $300 million to man-rate the Falcon 9 and
Dragon capsule, mostly due to an escape system and flight tests.
But still even then your're talking about multiple times more in
development costs by the "old space" companies.

* Bob Clark- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

this makes nasa irrevelant, which is sad but perhaps necessary.

get nasa out of the way.........

On Dec 12, 8:27*am, " wrote:

this makes nasa irrevelant, which is sad but perhaps necessary.

You have never played videogames? There should be as many space
service providers as, say, radio stations or local bus lines, or even
internet domains! It is the way knowledge and capital tend to
accumulate when you start with a successful commercial-technological
base. You can see it in simulators, I mean, videogames (was the army
spending billions of budget into GAMES?). NASA can reaccomodate, but
who was the IMBECILE (60 IQ or less) who decided that all internet
content be given under DUMPING? I am a fan of space pictures I find
for free everywhere; even NASA can find a way to turn some *products*
into commercial ventures then act as compensation chamber/regulatory
body... though I still remember a recent magazine announcing a new
spatial venture with an engine development picture I remember from my
early childhood in the seventies! (Automatic debris collection,
anyone?)

Danilo J Bonsignore