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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 19th 04, 04:57 PM
Bill Clark
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do,
will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what
organizations ten times their size cannot. This sets a very bad
standard for industry, giving the shareholders and investors a high
expectation of their capabilities. Without the shining example of
NASA, industry can plod along and people are perfectly content with
shoddy products, nominal innovation, high prices, and poor customer
support. I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry
was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees.
Industry has motive, the employees do not.
  #2  
Old April 19th 04, 05:38 PM
John
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

"Bill Clark" wrote ...
Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do,
will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what
organizations ten times their size cannot.


I am neither surprised nor impressed that NASA can achieve things that an
organisation like Microsoft cannot. Especially since I understand there are
a number of legal obstacles to keep it this way.

John


  #4  
Old April 20th 04, 01:06 PM
EAC
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

I don't know if one should compare NASA culture with corporate
culture, I think that it should be instead compare with military
culture.
  #5  
Old April 20th 04, 02:08 PM
Revision
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

(Bill Clark)
I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry
was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees.
Industry has motive, the employees do not.


I would go so far as to say that I don't really believe you give a ****
either way.

Let me venture a wild guess. In order to obtain a Ph.D, the research
topic must be approved by a faculty advisor.

You submitted a project that violated conventional physics. Your advisor
told you that your project was unacceptable.

You insisted that your approach was valid, at which point the advisor
realized that he had a nut case on his hands and the rest is history.

Is this approximately what happened?



  #7  
Old April 21st 04, 06:12 AM
Jorge R. Frank
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

"Mike Walsh" wrote in
:


"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
(Bill Clark) wrote in
om:

Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong
can-do, will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve
what organizations ten times their size cannot.


...

I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry
was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees.
Industry has motive, the employees do not.


You may go that far, but you'd be wrong. The historical record is
quite clear: engineers at Morton Thiokol (the "aerospace industry"
you

disparage)
urged NASA to scrub the launch of Challenger. They were overruled by
their management, under direct pressure from NASA.

That "can-do" attitude can get deadly when it turns into "prove to me
it's unsafe to launch."


Are you somehow claiming that Thiokol management was part of NASA
and not part of the aerospace industry?


No, I am not. You've been arguing with Ed Wright too much.

Would NASA still have launched even if Thiokol management backed
up their engineers and said it was unsafe to launch?

I feel there was plenty of blame to go around and that NASA must
bear the onus of not fixing the problem after the partial burnthoughs
were reported (sort of like previous hits from ice on Columbia).


They must also bear the onus for applying pressure to Thiokol.

However, it was Thiokol management that told their engineers to
"put on their management hats" not NASA, unless you have some
new evidence to provide.


Thiokol management said that out of an overriding desire to tell NASA what
they wanted to hear. Under the circumstances (overwhelming pressure from
NASA upper management to concur with the launch decision), it would have
made absolutely no difference if they had been NASA middle managers
overriding NASA engineers - the issue is one of power, not culture.


--
JRF

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check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.
  #8  
Old April 21st 04, 12:44 PM
David A. Scott
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in
:


Thiokol management said that out of an overriding desire to tell NASA
what they wanted to hear. Under the circumstances (overwhelming
pressure from NASA upper management to concur with the launch
decision), it would have made absolutely no difference if they had
been NASA middle managers overriding NASA engineers - the issue is one
of power, not culture.



I don't think so. In the old government structure before all the
political correctness nonsense and gender and racial balancing. A
government engineer could make an honest descision even if it was
contrary to management and not get fired. While in industry the
engineers had to worry more about there jobs. However in the old
days the managers where more qualifed and had a higher IQ they they
seem to have today. At least that what my 26 years in government
work has showed me.

The trouble is the managers of today know less than the engineers
but they have more power to screw things up. A culture has arisen
that makes managers think they know more than the engineers under them.
Its sort of like the math teachers that currently teach in the schools.
The math teachers have all sorts of credientals that are nothing
more than rewards for kissing up to the system but in fact its just
paper they don't know or care about mathematics yet a phony system
has beem created to pretend they know something about mathematics.
As a consequence I see in the college freshmen a large number of
students who hate math and can't even do basic arithmetic. They
are a lost generation that will not be able to function as well
as the previous generation. America is in real trouble and I for
one fear the current generation does not have the smarts to ever
go back to the moon unless somehow we change directions. Its not
a money problem its a culture problem.
Where I live the kids on the other side of the border Juarez are
an order of magnitude brighter in mathematics and science so its not
money its just a culture of keeping the best out of teaching
science and mathematics to our kids.


David A. Scott
--
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http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip old version
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  #9  
Old April 27th 04, 12:55 AM
Tiger
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

For the record, I would like to clarify that the poster listed as "Bill
Clark", and who is having collegiate difficulties, is NOT, and should NOT,
be confused with myself, Bill Clarke (William Clarke with an "e" on Clarke),
a former Flight Dynamics Officer at Mission Control. Not that anyone
probably cares, but I don't want to be mistaken for this guy. I lurk and
watch my former co-workers and friends continue their efforts at JSC, new
jobs, and in this forum, and I want them to know without a doubt "it ain't
Clutch!"

Hello to all, especially Mike, Jorge, and Roger. Keep up the great work.

Watching RTF with great interest.........

Cheers,
Clutch


"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
(Bill Clark) wrote in
om:

Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do,
will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what
organizations ten times their size cannot.


...

I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry
was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees.
Industry has motive, the employees do not.


You may go that far, but you'd be wrong. The historical record is quite
clear: engineers at Morton Thiokol (the "aerospace industry" you

disparage)
urged NASA to scrub the launch of Challenger. They were overruled by their
management, under direct pressure from NASA.

That "can-do" attitude can get deadly when it turns into "prove to me it's
unsafe to launch."

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.



  #10  
Old April 28th 04, 01:47 AM
Terrell Miller
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Default NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture

"David A. Scott" wrote in message

I don't think so. In the old government structure before all the
political correctness nonsense and gender and racial balancing. A
government engineer could make an honest descision even if it was
contrary to management and not get fired. While in industry the
engineers had to worry more about there jobs. However in the old
days the managers where more qualifed and had a higher IQ they they
seem to have today. At least that what my 26 years in government
work has showed me.


it certainly didn't show you how to use good grammar and spelling...

Where I live the kids on the other side of the border Juarez are
an order of magnitude brighter in mathematics and science so its not
money its just a culture of keeping the best out of teaching
science and mathematics to our kids.


thank you for making the brave sacrifice of not being a teacher, sport g

--
Terrell Miller


"It's one thing to burn down the **** house and another thing entirely to
install plumbing"
-PJ O'Rourke


 




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