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Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 9th 11, 11:17 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.

Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle? Say with 2 space suited crew members some emergency oxygen,
all remote controlled. The crew would enter dragon perhaps with
inflatable couches, seal the hatch and be returned to earth.

wonder how fast a departing dragon could in a emergency be re entered?

This might enable during a soyuz problem to leave 2 ISS crew members
for skelton operations while returning everyone else by soyuz.......

the remaing 2 crew members would still have a way off in a true
emergency
  #2  
Old December 10th 11, 05:44 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alan Erskine[_3_]
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Posts: 1,026
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

On 10/12/2011 9:17 AM, bob haller wrote:
Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.

Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle? Say with 2 space suited crew members some emergency oxygen,
all remote controlled. The crew would enter dragon perhaps with
inflatable couches, seal the hatch and be returned to earth.

wonder how fast a departing dragon could in a emergency be re entered?

This might enable during a soyuz problem to leave 2 ISS crew members
for skelton operations while returning everyone else by soyuz.......

the remaing 2 crew members would still have a way off in a true
emergency


Dragon isn't human qualified yet. I have no doubt that America will
used Dragon as a return craft and keep one docked at ISS for that
purpose, but not at the moment.
  #3  
Old December 10th 11, 05:54 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jorge R. Frank
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Posts: 2,089
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

On 12/09/2011 10:44 PM, Alan Erskine wrote:
On 10/12/2011 9:17 AM, bob haller wrote:
Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.

Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle? Say with 2 space suited crew members some emergency oxygen,
all remote controlled. The crew would enter dragon perhaps with
inflatable couches, seal the hatch and be returned to earth.

wonder how fast a departing dragon could in a emergency be re entered?

This might enable during a soyuz problem to leave 2 ISS crew members
for skelton operations while returning everyone else by soyuz.......

the remaing 2 crew members would still have a way off in a true
emergency


Dragon isn't human qualified yet. I have no doubt that America will used
Dragon as a return craft and keep one docked at ISS for that purpose,
but not at the moment.


And that will be the Crew Dragon (which docks) and not the current Cargo
Dragon (which is berthed).

Cargo Dragon is unsuitable for crew emergency return because the active
side of the berthing mechanism is on the station side, and because it
requires a human operating the SSRMS to unberth and release it.
  #4  
Old December 10th 11, 06:53 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

On Dec 9, 11:54*pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
On 12/09/2011 10:44 PM, Alan Erskine wrote:





On 10/12/2011 9:17 AM, bob haller wrote:
Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.


Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle? Say with 2 space suited crew members some emergency oxygen,
all remote controlled. The crew would enter dragon perhaps with
inflatable couches, seal the hatch and be returned to earth.


wonder how fast a departing dragon could in a emergency be re entered?


This might enable during a soyuz problem to leave 2 ISS crew members
for skelton operations while returning everyone else by soyuz.......


the remaing 2 crew members would still have a way off in a true
emergency


Dragon isn't human qualified yet. I have no doubt that America will used
Dragon as a return craft and keep one docked at ISS for that purpose,
but not at the moment.


And that will be the Crew Dragon (which docks) and not the current Cargo
Dragon (which is berthed).

Cargo Dragon is unsuitable for crew emergency return because the active
side of the berthing mechanism is on the station side, and because it
requires a human operating the SSRMS to unberth and release it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


i wonder if that release could be ground controlled in a emergency?

i am not saying this would be optimum, but just a last ditch fallback
in the case soyuz isnt available.

this could even be a station hit by debris, 1 soyuz taken out, so
consumables would be in short supply, station badly damaged only one
soyuz is available for crew return....

today whats the plan? pick 3 to die? attempt to cram more than 3
astronauts in a soyuz? perhaps by removing everything possible like
space suits and couches?

how many could a soyuz hold
  #5  
Old December 12th 11, 02:49 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Joseph Nebus
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Posts: 306
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

In bob haller writes:

i wonder if that release could be ground controlled in a emergency?


i am not saying this would be optimum, but just a last ditch fallback
in the case soyuz isnt available.


this could even be a station hit by debris, 1 soyuz taken out, so
consumables would be in short supply, station badly damaged only one
soyuz is available for crew return....


But in that case, wouldn't an attempt to send up a Dragon just
see the craft get captured by time-travelling Borg?

--
http://nebusresearch.wordpress.com/ Joseph Nebus
Current Entry: Ted Baxter and the Binomial Distribution
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  #6  
Old December 12th 11, 04:49 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Posts: 1,388
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

In article 678dd8ad-17c8-454a-981f-
, says...

On Dec 9, 11:54*pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:

And that will be the Crew Dragon (which docks) and not the current Cargo
Dragon (which is berthed).

Cargo Dragon is unsuitable for crew emergency return because the active
side of the berthing mechanism is on the station side, and because it
requires a human operating the SSRMS to unberth and release it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


i wonder if that release could be ground controlled in a emergency?


You can't assume that it can be reliably controlled in an emergency.
The emergency could involve power, communications, or computers on ISS,
any of which could disable the ability to control the CBM from the
ground.

i am not saying this would be optimum, but just a last ditch fallback
in the case soyuz isnt available.


The whole point of the emergency return vehicle is to get the heck off a
damaged/disabled ISS and back to earth in a timely manner. If it's
stuck at ISS due to the inability for the ground to command the CBM,
it's not much of a return vehicle, is it?

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #7  
Old December 12th 11, 05:34 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

that it can be reliably controlled in an emergency.
The emergency could involve power, communications, or computers on ISS,
any of which could disable the ability to control the CBM from the
ground.

i am not saying this would be optimum, but just a last ditch fallback
in the case soyuz isnt available.


The whole point of the emergency return vehicle is to get the heck off a
damaged/disabled ISS and back to earth in a timely manner. *If it's
stuck at ISS due to the inability for the ground to command the CBM,
it's not much of a return vehicle, is it?

Jeff


a realtively simple detach and release system could be built for
emergency use only.

dragon deliverys freight then hangs out attached to ISS for
emergencies
--

  #8  
Old December 12th 11, 07:08 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

that it can be reliably controlled in an emergency.
The emergency could involve power, communications, or computers on ISS,
any of which could disable the ability to control the CBM from the
ground.

i am not saying this would be optimum, but just a last ditch fallback
in the case soyuz isnt available.


The whole point of the emergency return vehicle is to get the heck off a
damaged/disabled ISS and back to earth in a timely manner. If it's
stuck at ISS due to the inability for the ground to command the CBM,
it's not much of a return vehicle, is it?

Jeff


a realtively simple detach and release system could be built for
emergency use only.


Bob, you can' even proofread your own posts. You expect us to believe you
when you imply there's a simply system?

dragon deliverys freight then hangs out attached to ISS for
emergencies


Or, as Jorge pointed out, wait for the crewed version and simply fly that.

Don't overcomplicate things.

--




--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain Software
http://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans: http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

  #9  
Old December 12th 11, 07:45 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,388
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

In article 82170c71-e545-425f-83f4-dd81703f10b1@
13g2000vbu.googlegroups.com, says...

that it can be reliably controlled in an emergency.
The emergency could involve power, communications, or computers on ISS,
any of which could disable the ability to control the CBM from the
ground.

i am not saying this would be optimum, but just a last ditch fallback
in the case soyuz isnt available.


The whole point of the emergency return vehicle is to get the heck off a
damaged/disabled ISS and back to earth in a timely manner. *If it's
stuck at ISS due to the inability for the ground to command the CBM,
it's not much of a return vehicle, is it?

Jeff


a realtively simple detach and release system could be built for
emergency use only.


It has, it's called the Androgynous Peripheral Docking System (APAS-95).
Your suggestion to modify the CBM is a hack.

dragon deliverys freight then hangs out attached to ISS for
emergencies


Only in your mind. Dragon's first cargo flight is coming up. It's not
ready for a crew.

I wish SpaceX good luck, but please don't count your chickens before
they're hatched.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #10  
Old December 12th 11, 09:16 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

On Dec 12, 1:45*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 82170c71-e545-425f-83f4-dd81703f10b1@
13g2000vbu.googlegroups.com, says...







*that it can be reliably controlled in an emergency.
The emergency could involve power, communications, or computers on ISS,
any of which could disable the ability to control the CBM from the
ground.


i am not saying this would be optimum, but just a last ditch fallback
in the case soyuz isnt available.


The whole point of the emergency return vehicle is to get the heck off a
damaged/disabled ISS and back to earth in a timely manner. *If it's
stuck at ISS due to the inability for the ground to command the CBM,
it's not much of a return vehicle, is it?


Jeff


a realtively simple detach and release system could be built for
emergency use only.


It has, it's called the Androgynous Peripheral Docking System (APAS-95).
Your suggestion to modify the CBM is a hack.

dragon deliverys freight then hangs out attached to ISS for
emergencies


Only in your mind. *Dragon's first cargo flight is coming up. *It's not
ready for a crew.

I wish SpaceX good luck, but please don't count your chickens before
they're hatched.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


today if soyuz cant launch its decrew ISS and run the risk of a out of
control station coming down on someones head....

at least with a admitted hack the station and crew would have a chance
for safety.

today a ISS debris hit could take out the soyuz and we could all watch
the crew die and station be out left to tumble out of control
 




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