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#21
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The perpetual calendar
On Feb 28, 5:22*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian church or my Episcopal school. The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org/basics/catechism.html The Baltimore Catechism, however, was rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would be, fifty years later. Hm. See *http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the Apostles' Creed is given? Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism - And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic atheist referred to? |
#22
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The perpetual calendar
On Feb 28, 4:51*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:00:48 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: On Feb 27, 2:39 am, Hatunen wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:20:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: The discussion was about whether there are Christians who don't use the Nicene creed. Although an atheist myself, I sometimes find myself in situations when the concept of "Christian" may need clarifying, especially since I also belong to Unitarian-Uniersalist church. To me, one is only a Christian if one believes that there was a Jesus Christ who was the son of God and who died to redeem the sins of [fill in the blank: everyone; the chosen; the confessed, etc.]. None of this "I believe Jesus had good ideas stuff". I'm sure there are, and gave examples of Christians who may believe in the Nicene dogma but not use the creed (e.g. most Quakers--Mike Lyle pointed out that not all Quakers are Christians) and also of Christians who don't believe in the dogma of the Nicene creed at all (a long list, still available upthread). At that point you claimed they are "by definition, not Christians". Sigh. The essence of Christian dogma is encapsulated in the Nicene Creed. But you don't have to say it explicitly to be a Christian. You have to accept it. You have to acccept its principles. you probably have to affirm it at Confirmation (if you were baptized as an infant) or at Baptism (if baptized as an adult). "Probably" being the significant word. I attended many Episcopal Confirmations and at least one Presbyterian adult Baptism. The "probably" expects that the practices of those mainline Protestant denominations extend to the other mainline Protestant denominations. (I don't get why Catholics have First Communion years before Confirmation.) I wonder whether sjedvnull would be satisfied with, If you're baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then you're a Christian. There are those who claim so. The 1928 Book of Common Prayer contains a formula which any Christian can use to baptize someone _in extremis_ where there is doubt as to whether they have been baptized before. |
#23
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The perpetual calendar
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote: On Feb 28, 5:22*pm, Hatunen wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian church or my Episcopal school. The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org/basics/catechism.html The Baltimore Catechism, however, was rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would be, fifty years later. Hm. See *http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the Apostles' Creed is given? What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'? Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism - And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic atheist referred to? 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."' Then what are all those pointers pointing to? -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#24
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The perpetual calendar
On Feb 28, 6:41*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, Hatunen wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian church or my Episcopal school. The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org... The Baltimore Catechism, however, was rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would be, fifty years later. Hm. Seehttp://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the Apostles' Creed is given? What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'? Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism - And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic atheist referred to? 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."' Then what are all those pointers pointing to? Try looking at what he actually said. |
#25
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The perpetual calendar
Nick wrote:
Peter Moylan gro.nalyomp@retep writes: At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not legally binding". Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in any case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the case of the baptism. Seems a bit pointless to me. You might as well go through it wholeheartedly. After all, if it's rubbish then it's harmless - and if it's not you probably wanted to do it. And if I picked the wrong god? I can think of at least one god who is hostile towards those who worship a different god. -- Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. |
#26
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The perpetual calendar
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:46:47 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote: On Feb 28, 6:41*pm, Hatunen wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, Hatunen wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian church or my Episcopal school. The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org... The Baltimore Catechism, however, was rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would be, fifty years later. Hm. Seehttp://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the Apostles' Creed is given? What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'? Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism - And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic atheist referred to? 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."' Then what are all those pointers pointing to? Try looking at what he actually said. I did again. "There's no such thing as 'a catechism'". There certainly seems to be such a thing. I might agree, though, that there's no such thing as 'the catecachism'. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#27
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The perpetual calendar
On Feb 28, 9:39*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:46:47 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: On Feb 28, 6:41 pm, Hatunen wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, Hatunen wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels" wrote: There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian church or my Episcopal school. The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa..org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org... The Baltimore Catechism, however, was rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would be, fifty years later. Hm. Seehttp://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the Apostles' Creed is given? What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'? Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism - And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic atheist referred to? 'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."' Then what are all those pointers pointing to? Try looking at what he actually said. I did again. "There's no such thing as 'a catechism'". There certainly seems to be such a thing. I might agree, though, that there's no such thing as 'the catecachism'. No, that's what _I_ said. Try looking at what I was responding to. |
#28
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The perpetual calendar
On 28-Feb-10 18:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
Nick wrote: Peter Moylangro.nalyomp@retep writes: At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not legally binding". Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in any case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the case of the baptism. Seems a bit pointless to me. You might as well go through it wholeheartedly. After all, if it's rubbish then it's harmless - and if it's not you probably wanted to do it. And if I picked the wrong god? I can think of at least one god who is hostile towards those who worship a different god. Aren't they all this way? Brings to mind a quote from the sig file, attached as my sig. -- BILL: I can't get behind the Gods, who are more vengeful, angry, an dangerous if you don't believe in them! HENRY: Why can't all these God just get along? I mean, they're omni- potent and omnipresent, what's the problem? |
#29
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The perpetual calendar
On 3/2/2010 4:38 AM, Lewis wrote:
On 28-Feb-10 18:07, Peter Moylan wrote: Nick wrote: Peter Moylangro.nalyomp@retep writes: At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not legally binding". Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in any case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the case of the baptism. Seems a bit pointless to me. You might as well go through it wholeheartedly. After all, if it's rubbish then it's harmless - and if it's not you probably wanted to do it. And if I picked the wrong god? I can think of at least one god who is hostile towards those who worship a different god. Aren't they all this way? Brings to mind a quote from the sig file, attached as my sig. I think that most of the deities worshipped in the world today are not that way. Certainly the guy with the four letter Hebrew name is, and he seems to get most of the press, but are the numerous Kami all over Japan that way? How about the hundreds of deities in Chinese traditional religion? And then there's Hinduism . . . |
#30
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The perpetual calendar
"J. Clarke" writes:
On 3/2/2010 4:38 AM, Lewis wrote: [nothing I wasn't going to snip] Look everybody - it's Lewis and Clark(e)! (sorry guys) -- Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk |
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