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  #21  
Old March 1st 10, 12:36 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Peter T. Daniels
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Posts: 200
Default The perpetual calendar

On Feb 28, 5:22*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

wrote:
There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few
Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore
Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian
church or my Episcopal school.


The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org/basics/catechism.html

The Baltimore Catechism, however, was
rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would
be, fifty years later.


Hm. See *http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm


So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the
Apostles' Creed is given?

Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism -


And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic
atheist referred to?
  #22  
Old March 1st 10, 12:40 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Peter T. Daniels
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Posts: 200
Default The perpetual calendar

On Feb 28, 4:51*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:00:48 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"





wrote:
On Feb 27, 2:39 am, Hatunen wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:20:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"


wrote:
The discussion was about whether there are Christians who don't use
the Nicene creed.


Although an atheist myself, I sometimes find myself in situations
when the concept of "Christian" may need clarifying, especially
since I also belong to Unitarian-Uniersalist church. To me, one
is only a Christian if one believes that there was a Jesus Christ
who was the son of God and who died to redeem the sins of [fill
in the blank: everyone; the chosen; the confessed, etc.].


None of this "I believe Jesus had good ideas stuff".


I'm sure there are, and gave examples of Christians who may believe in
the Nicene dogma but not use the creed (e.g. most Quakers--Mike Lyle
pointed out that not all Quakers are Christians) and also of
Christians who don't believe in the dogma of the Nicene creed at all
(a long list, still available upthread).


At that point you claimed they are "by definition, not Christians".


Sigh. The essence of Christian dogma is encapsulated in the Nicene
Creed.


But you don't have to say it explicitly to be a Christian.


You have to accept it.


You have to acccept its principles.

you probably have to affirm it at Confirmation
(if you were baptized as an infant) or at Baptism (if baptized as an
adult).


"Probably" being the significant word.


I attended many Episcopal Confirmations and at least one Presbyterian
adult Baptism. The "probably" expects that the practices of those
mainline Protestant denominations extend to the other mainline
Protestant denominations.

(I don't get why Catholics have First Communion years before
Confirmation.)

I wonder whether sjedvnull would be satisfied with, If you're baptized
in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then you're a
Christian.


There are those who claim so.


The 1928 Book of Common Prayer contains a formula which any Christian
can use to baptize someone _in extremis_ where there is doubt as to
whether they have been baptized before.
  #23  
Old March 1st 10, 12:41 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Hatunen
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Posts: 97
Default The perpetual calendar

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

On Feb 28, 5:22*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

wrote:
There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few
Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore
Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian
church or my Episcopal school.


The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org/basics/catechism.html

The Baltimore Catechism, however, was
rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would
be, fifty years later.


Hm. See *http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm


So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the
Apostles' Creed is given?


What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such
thing as "a Catechism."'?

Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism -


And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic
atheist referred to?


'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'

Then what are all those pointers pointing to?

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #24  
Old March 1st 10, 12:46 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Peter T. Daniels
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Posts: 200
Default The perpetual calendar

On Feb 28, 6:41*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"





wrote:
On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"


wrote:
There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few
Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore
Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian
church or my Episcopal school.


The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org...


The Baltimore Catechism, however, was
rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would
be, fifty years later.


Hm. Seehttp://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm


So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the
Apostles' Creed is given?


What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such
thing as "a Catechism."'?

Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism -


And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic
atheist referred to?


'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'

Then what are all those pointers pointing to?


Try looking at what he actually said.
  #25  
Old March 1st 10, 02:07 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Peter Moylan
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Posts: 25
Default The perpetual calendar

Nick wrote:
Peter Moylan gro.nalyomp@retep writes:


At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I
was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not
legally binding".

Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in any
case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the
case of the baptism.


Seems a bit pointless to me. You might as well go through it
wholeheartedly. After all, if it's rubbish then it's harmless - and if
it's not you probably wanted to do it.


And if I picked the wrong god? I can think of at least one god who is
hostile towards those who worship a different god.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
  #26  
Old March 1st 10, 03:39 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Hatunen
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Posts: 97
Default The perpetual calendar

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:46:47 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

On Feb 28, 6:41*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"





wrote:
On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"


wrote:
There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few
Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore
Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian
church or my Episcopal school.


The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org...


The Baltimore Catechism, however, was
rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would
be, fifty years later.


Hm. Seehttp://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm


So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the
Apostles' Creed is given?


What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such
thing as "a Catechism."'?

Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism -


And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic
atheist referred to?


'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'

Then what are all those pointers pointing to?


Try looking at what he actually said.


I did again. "There's no such thing as 'a catechism'". There
certainly seems to be such a thing. I might agree, though, that
there's no such thing as 'the catecachism'.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #27  
Old March 1st 10, 05:17 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Peter T. Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default The perpetual calendar

On Feb 28, 9:39*pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:46:47 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:
On Feb 28, 6:41 pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:36:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:
On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:


There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few
Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore
Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian
church or my Episcopal school.


The term may not have been explicitly used, but seehttp://www.pcusa..org/catech/studycat.htmandhttp://anglicansonline.org...


The Baltimore Catechism, however, was
rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would
be, fifty years later.


Hm. Seehttp://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm


So can you find someplace in that document where the text of the
Apostles' Creed is given?


What does that have to do with your statement, 'There's no such
thing as "a Catechism."'?


Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism -


And would one of them be the "a Catechism" our conservative Catholic
atheist referred to?


'There's no such thing as "a Catechism."'


Then what are all those pointers pointing to?


Try looking at what he actually said.


I did again. "There's no such thing as 'a catechism'". There
certainly seems to be such a thing. I might agree, though, that
there's no such thing as 'the catecachism'.


No, that's what _I_ said. Try looking at what I was responding to.
  #28  
Old March 2nd 10, 10:38 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Lewis
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Posts: 27
Default The perpetual calendar

On 28-Feb-10 18:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
Nick wrote:
Peter Moylangro.nalyomp@retep writes:


At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I
was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not
legally binding".

Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in any
case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the
case of the baptism.


Seems a bit pointless to me. You might as well go through it
wholeheartedly. After all, if it's rubbish then it's harmless - and if
it's not you probably wanted to do it.


And if I picked the wrong god? I can think of at least one god who is
hostile towards those who worship a different god.


Aren't they all this way? Brings to mind a quote from the sig file,
attached as my sig.


--
BILL: I can't get behind the Gods, who are more vengeful, angry, an
dangerous if you don't believe in them!
HENRY: Why can't all these God just get along? I mean, they're omni-
potent and omnipresent, what's the problem?
  #29  
Old March 2nd 10, 03:06 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
J. Clarke
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Posts: 199
Default The perpetual calendar

On 3/2/2010 4:38 AM, Lewis wrote:
On 28-Feb-10 18:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
Nick wrote:
Peter Moylangro.nalyomp@retep writes:


At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I
was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not
legally binding".

Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in
any
case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the
case of the baptism.

Seems a bit pointless to me. You might as well go through it
wholeheartedly. After all, if it's rubbish then it's harmless - and if
it's not you probably wanted to do it.


And if I picked the wrong god? I can think of at least one god who is
hostile towards those who worship a different god.


Aren't they all this way? Brings to mind a quote from the sig file,
attached as my sig.


I think that most of the deities worshipped in the world today are not
that way. Certainly the guy with the four letter Hebrew name is, and he
seems to get most of the press, but are the numerous Kami all over Japan
that way? How about the hundreds of deities in Chinese traditional
religion? And then there's Hinduism . . .


  #30  
Old March 2nd 10, 08:23 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Nick[_5_]
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Posts: 16
Default The perpetual calendar

"J. Clarke" writes:

On 3/2/2010 4:38 AM, Lewis wrote:


[nothing I wasn't going to snip]

Look everybody - it's Lewis and Clark(e)!

(sorry guys)
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
 




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