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The perpetual calendar



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 28th 10, 08:12 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Skitt
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Default The perpetual calendar

Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
"Skitt" writes:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
"Skitt" wrote:


It made our helpers happy, and no believers were harmed in the
process. Why, I even joined the YMCA, as it was our official
sponsor. The YMCA had great pool tables and a table tennis
facility, so all was not lost.

I don't think you have to be Christian (or Young) to use the YMCA
...


Not to use, but there was some sort of commitment that had to be
expressed to join the Y.


If so, they changed their policy by the time I started taking swimming
lessons there in the '60s. My family were members, but we wouldn't
have made any statement that expressed an affiliation with
Christianity.


I was referring to the 1949-1953 period. Things may have changed since
then. Their Web site still mentions:

Our Mission:
To put Christian principles into practice through programs that build
healthy spirit, mind and body for all.

[snip]

I was also a Ragger (of the blue sort).
http://www.phantomlakeymca.com/raggers.html
Again, that was top please our sponsor. Besides, when we first came to the
USA, we lived in the Upper Lodge of the YMCA Camp near Boulder Creek. Our
family was part of the staff there.

--
Skitt (AmE)

  #12  
Old February 28th 10, 08:14 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Peter T. Daniels
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On Feb 28, 11:49*am, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
"Skitt" writes:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
"Skitt" wrote:
It made our helpers happy, and no believers were harmed in the
process. Why, I even joined the YMCA, as it was our official
sponsor. The YMCA had great pool tables and a table tennis
facility, so all was not lost.


I don't think you have to be Christian (or Young) to use the YMCA ...


Not to use, but there was some sort of commitment that had to be
expressed to join the Y.


If so, they changed their policy by the time I started taking swimming
lessons there in the '60s. *My family were members, but we wouldn't
have made any statement that expressed an affiliation with
Christianity.

Or perhaps it varied by Y.

you certainly don't have to be Jewish (or male) to use the YMHA;
the 92nd St. Y is one of New York City's great cultural
institutions. *(They don't seem to use the MHA in their name any
more.)


Their web pages still say

* * 2010 92nd Street Young Men's and Young Women's Hebrew Association

but I suspect that the "Hebrew" euphemism (from latter half of the
nineteenth century) is considered just too archaic. *Outside of New
York, most became "Jewish Community Centers" (JCCs or J's) in, I
believe, the '20s.


I didn't know whether it started out as a YMHA or a YWHA, and I had to
dig down into the "history" page to find anything but "Y" used as its
name.
  #13  
Old February 28th 10, 10:51 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Hatunen
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On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:00:48 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

On Feb 27, 2:39*am, Hatunen wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:20:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

wrote:
The discussion was about whether there are Christians who don't use
the Nicene creed.


Although an atheist myself, I sometimes find myself in situations
when the concept of "Christian" may need clarifying, especially
since I also belong to *Unitarian-Uniersalist church. To me, one
is only a Christian if one believes that there was a Jesus Christ
who was the son of God and who died to redeem the sins of [fill
in the blank: everyone; the chosen; the confessed, etc.].

None of this "I believe Jesus had good ideas stuff".

I'm sure there are, and gave examples of Christians who may believe in
the Nicene dogma but not use the creed (e.g. most Quakers--Mike Lyle
pointed out that not all Quakers are Christians) and also of
Christians who don't believe in the dogma of the Nicene creed at all
(a long list, still available upthread).


At that point you claimed they are "by definition, not Christians".


Sigh. The essence of Christian dogma is encapsulated in the Nicene
Creed.


But you don't have to say it explicitly to be a Christian.


You have to accept it.


You have to acccept its principles.

you probably have to affirm it at Confirmation
(if you were baptized as an infant) or at Baptism (if baptized as an
adult).


"Probably" being the significant word.

I wonder whether sjedvnull would be satisfied with, If you're baptized
in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then you're a
Christian.


There are those who claim so.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #14  
Old February 28th 10, 10:55 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Hatunen
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Posts: 97
Default The perpetual calendar

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:39:12 -0500, tony cooper
wrote:

A denomination might be Christian only if it subscribes to "there
was a Jesus Christ who was the son of God...", but "one" - the
individuals who are of that denomination - are not non-Christians
because they don't accept this particular bit as truth. One needn't
accept the whole package to be part of a denomination.


That seems to be the point at issue here, and the discussion
verges on being scholastic.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #15  
Old February 28th 10, 10:59 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Skitt
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Posts: 25
Default The perpetual calendar

Hatunen wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:


I wonder whether sjedvnull would be satisfied with, If you're
baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then
you're a Christian.


There are those who claim so.


Just to provide some data -- I was so baptized (at the age of 16), but it
didn't make me a Christian, at least, not in my beliefs. I mean, even if I
do or say certain things, maybe my fingers are crossed behind my back. g

--
Skitt (Follower of the FOTIPU)
"The Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic
and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know
that they are invisible because we can't see them." -- Steve Eley

  #16  
Old February 28th 10, 11:22 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Hatunen
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Posts: 97
Default The perpetual calendar

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:57:41 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

There's no such thing as "a Catechism." When I was little, the few
Catholics I knew had to memorize something called "the Baltimore
Catechism," which had no parallel whatsoever in either my Presbyterian
church or my Episcopal school.


The term may not have been explicitly used, but see
http://www.pcusa.org/catech/studycat.htm and
http://anglicansonline.org/basics/catechism.html


The Baltimore Catechism, however, was
rendered obsolete by Vatican II. I don't know what "a Catechism" would
be, fifty years later.


Hm. See http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Google reveals many, many more pointers to - catholic catechism -


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #17  
Old February 28th 10, 11:26 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Peter Moylan
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Default The perpetual calendar

Skitt wrote:
Hatunen wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:


I wonder whether sjedvnull would be satisfied with, If you're
baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then
you're a Christian.


There are those who claim so.


Just to provide some data -- I was so baptized (at the age of 16), but
it didn't make me a Christian, at least, not in my beliefs. I mean,
even if I do or say certain things, maybe my fingers are crossed behind
my back. g

At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I
was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not
legally binding".

Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in any
case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the
case of the baptism.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
  #18  
Old February 28th 10, 11:57 PM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Hatunen
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Posts: 97
Default The perpetual calendar

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:12:37 -0800, "Skitt"
wrote:

Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
"Skitt" writes:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:


Not to use, but there was some sort of commitment that had to be
expressed to join the Y.


If so, they changed their policy by the time I started taking swimming
lessons there in the '60s. My family were members, but we wouldn't
have made any statement that expressed an affiliation with
Christianity.


I was referring to the 1949-1953 period. Things may have changed since
then. Their Web site still mentions:

Our Mission:
To put Christian principles into practice through programs that build
healthy spirit, mind and body for all.


That can be done without requiring a commitment to the recipient
of the use of those principles. Even atheists can fit into that.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #19  
Old March 1st 10, 12:11 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Nick[_5_]
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Posts: 16
Default The perpetual calendar

Peter Moylan gro.nalyomp@retep writes:

Skitt wrote:
Hatunen wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote:


I wonder whether sjedvnull would be satisfied with, If you're
baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then
you're a Christian.

There are those who claim so.


Just to provide some data -- I was so baptized (at the age of 16), but
it didn't make me a Christian, at least, not in my beliefs. I mean,
even if I do or say certain things, maybe my fingers are crossed behind
my back. g

At my confirmation my fingers definitely were crossed. In addition, I
was muttering under my breath "a promise made under duress is not
legally binding".

Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be baptised or confirmed, and in any
case I was too young to make an informed decision. Especially in the
case of the baptism.


Seems a bit pointless to me. You might as well go through it
wholeheartedly. After all, if it's rubbish then it's harmless - and if
it's not you probably wanted to do it.
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
  #20  
Old March 1st 10, 12:22 AM posted to sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Hatunen
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Posts: 97
Default The perpetual calendar

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

On Feb 28, 2:57*am, " wrote:
On Feb 27, 3:48*pm, "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:





On Feb 27, 1:40*pm, " wrote:


On Feb 27, 9:57*am, "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
On Feb 27, 2:29*am, " wrote:


On Feb 27, 12:20*am, "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
On Feb 26, 9:04*pm, " wrote:
At that point you claimed they are "by definition, not Christians".


Sigh. The essence of Christian dogma is encapsulated in the Nicene
Creed.


That is a different statement than the original, and would appear to


It may be a different "statement," but it conveys the obvious intent
of the original statement.


No, it conveys a different intent, which is obvious if you reread your
original question: "Doesn't _every_ extant Christian church use the
Nicene Creed? (With or without the _filioque_.)" *That's clearly


Since it's my question, I think I am entitled to state what its intent
was.


Whatever you might have meant, your words didn't convey it. *With an
ambiguous statement, it's certainly reasonable to admit that you were
wrong and revise your statement--I've certainly made ill-formed
statements in this thread and others, and altered them.

In this case, though, it's pretty obvious from the wording what you
meant by the original question, and if you're now asserting that you
didn't mean to ask whether all Christians actually use some real
wording of the Nicene Creed then I absolutely believe you're lying. *I
have no further interest in continuing this thread if you're going to
insist otherwise (and several other people in this thread also took
your words to mean what they meant to me, so I don't feel that's an
idiosyncrasy of mine).


See recent posting on mathematicians' restrictive interpretation of
unexpressed quantifiers in English.

(I gather, from the sources you cite, that you are some sort of
conservative Catholic, the type that in Chicago flocked to the one
parish in the city that had dispensation *from Rome to say Mass in
Latin, so I wouldn't be surprised if you don't know anything about
such questions.)


Have fun with that (Fwiw, I'm a liberal atheist).-


Then why on earth are you not familiar with recent (i.e., less than a
century and a half old) scholarship on topics on which you pontificate?


Do you mean he's acting like the Pontiff or that he's bui

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 




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