Addressing the formation of the solar system

On Apr 6, 10:20*pm, BURT wrote:
How do accretion discs form in a flat plane around a star?

How does the gravitational order bring matter together in the solar
plane. How then does this matter proceed to become planets?

There were trillions of lumps of matter. How did they come together
for the order of the solar system we now see?

Nobody can do it. And never will.

Mitch Raemsch

How about a retrospective look at Sirius B in its red supergiant
phase:

Red giant stars are many, and yet remain a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the color saturated eye-candy profiles that
we’ve been taught to accept. However, the visible spectrum is
extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically accessible from
just above and below our genetically limited and thus inferior visual
spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution was so careless
in having discarded so much visual capability, in that other creatures
seem to have a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some
UV and IR)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail”
http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...l_077 84.html
Mira A of several hundred solar radii (UV colorized as bluish): “A
dying star situated 400 light years away from us exhibits an unusual
and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for more than 13 light
years.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR
http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...aab_v2_col.pdf

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth nearly 3 fold the mass of the original Sirius B,
and currently expanded to 1000 solar radii, and it'll be truly
impressive nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf nearly the
size of Jupiter.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum and resolution of most everything, along with other
existing and soon to be deployed telescopes should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like. This may give
some of us a better interpretation as to what transpired right next
door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of what
our solar system has to offer.

~ BG

On Apr 27, 9:29*am, BradGuth wrote:
On Apr 6, 10:20*pm, BURT wrote:

How do accretion discs form in a flat plane around a star?

How does the gravitational order bring matter together in the solar
plane. How then does this matter proceed to become planets?

There were trillions of lumps of matter. How did they come together
for the order of the solar system we now see?

Nobody can do it. And never will.

Mitch Raemsch

How about a retrospective look at Sirius B in its red supergiant
phase:

Red giant stars are many, and yet remain a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the color saturated eye-candy profiles that
we’ve been taught to accept. *However, the visible spectrum is
extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically accessible from
just above and below our genetically limited and thus inferior visual
spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution was so careless
in having discarded so much visual capability, in that other creatures
seem to have a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some
UV and IR)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail”
*http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T....
*Mira A of several hundred solar radii (UV colorized as bluish): “A
dying star situated 400 light years away from us exhibits an unusual
and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for more than 13 light
years.”
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m....

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. *For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth nearly 3 fold the mass of the original Sirius B,
and currently expanded to 1000 solar radii, and it'll be truly
impressive nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf nearly the
size of Jupiter.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum and resolution of most everything, along with other
existing and soon to be deployed telescopes should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like. *This may give
some of us a better interpretation as to what transpired right next
door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of what
our solar system has to offer.

*~ BG

According to Steve Willner, the nearby stellar creation or cosmic
assimilation process of something like Sirius ABC transpired fairly
quickly, say within 10 some odd million years if all goes according to
plan, along with most of its protostellar disc remainders having
dissipated within only a few million years thereafter, rather than the
billion all-inclusive years that I’d previously thought.

On Apr 24, 1:10 pm, (Steve Willner) wrote:
The collapse time scale for an idealized giant molecular cloud is
about a million years. Real clouds collapse slower than that by
perhaps a factor of 10, probably because of internal gas turbulence.

You can see that the time scale is likely to be much shorter than
"billions of years" by observing that something over 90% of baryons
are incorporated into stars.

Protostellar disks form in a few hundred thousand years and dissipate
in a few million years. For galactic disks, formation time scales
are a few hundred million years. No "billions" at all.

This means that a minimum 12,000 120,000 solar mass molecular cloud
which gave birth to the original 12 solar mass of the Sirius star/
solar system took perhaps as little as 12 million years to complete
that initial process, rapping everything up as of perhaps no greater
than 300 MBP to perhaps as recent as 250 MBP.

Meanwhile, our passive solar system was supposedly fully established
and extremely nearby or even situated within the very same molecular
cloud, and yet somehow (far beyond my comprehension) having managed to
avoid any kind of give or take interactions or indirect trauma or
benefit from such a nearly cosmic event of collapsing baryons that
formed into the originally impressive Sirius star/solar system that’s
still worth nearly 3.5 the mass of our solar system.

Perhaps Steve Willner along with a good public funded supercomputer
simulation can further improve our deductive understanding of this
nearby stellar formation and complex environment of such a nifty
molecular cloud, once again that of perhaps at least 12,000 120,000
solar masses, that supposedly didn’t affect us at its beginning,
throughout its normal stellar evolution, or that of its impressive red
supergiant phase that could easily have been worth 1000 radii, and of
its subsequent recent end of life phase at becoming a compact white
dwarf which thereby lost its tidal radius grip upon whatever planets
and possibly even a third significant main sequence star of 2e30 kg.
Are we lucky, or what!

~ BG