Canadian Participation in Project Orion/Ares

The recent award to Lockheed/Martin (LM) for the development of the
Orion spacecraft identified the Prime team of contractors that made up
the LM proposal. None of the Primes are located outside the United
States.

At this stage, we're not aware of any 2nd-tier providers who might be
located in Canada.

Today, there exists almost a barter system whereby CSA astronauts are
provided Shuttle and possibly future ISS slots in exchange for Canadian
built hardware such as the Canadarms.

Without any Canadian participation in Orion/Ares, what is the future
for Canadian Space Agency astronauts in the post Shuttle/ISS world ??

On 1 Sep 2006 16:50:53 -0700, in a place far, far away, "Jeff Lerner"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

The recent award to Lockheed/Martin (LM) for the development of the
Orion spacecraft identified the Prime team of contractors that made up
the LM proposal. None of the Primes are located outside the United
States.

At this stage, we're not aware of any 2nd-tier providers who might be
located in Canada.

Today, there exists almost a barter system whereby CSA astronauts are
provided Shuttle and possibly future ISS slots in exchange for Canadian
built hardware such as the Canadarms.

Without any Canadian participation in Orion/Ares, what is the future
for Canadian Space Agency astronauts in the post Shuttle/ISS world ??

Who cares? Maybe the Canadian Space Agency has to figure out better
ways to indulge in space activities.

Jeff Lerner wrote:

The recent award to Lockheed/Martin (LM) for the development of the
Orion spacecraft identified the Prime team of contractors that made up
the LM proposal. None of the Primes are located outside the United
States.

At this stage, we're not aware of any 2nd-tier providers who might be
located in Canada.



I think you're seeing the fallout from the train wreck that was Russian
participation in the ISS.
That pretty much cooled the ardor for internationalism in future space
ventures.


Today, there exists almost a barter system whereby CSA astronauts are
provided Shuttle and possibly future ISS slots in exchange for Canadian
built hardware such as the Canadarms.

Without any Canadian participation in Orion/Ares, what is the future
for Canadian Space Agency astronauts in the post Shuttle/ISS world ??




http://www.canadianarrow.com/ :-)

Pat

Jeff Lerner wrote:
Without any Canadian participation in Orion/Ares, what is the future
for Canadian Space Agency astronauts in the post Shuttle/ISS world ??

I would suggest we knock on Rosaviakosmos' door and enquire if they'd
like help with Klipper. A loonie sent to Russia gives you more bang
than a loonie sent to the US.

Of course Bush would only need to bat his eyelashes and our current PM
would forget about the idea.

Well NASA still has to contract out for the new lunar lander and also
the launch vehicles.
Perhaps there will be some contracts there.


Jeff Lerner wrote:
The recent award to Lockheed/Martin (LM) for the development of the
Orion spacecraft identified the Prime team of contractors that made up
the LM proposal. None of the Primes are located outside the United
States.

At this stage, we're not aware of any 2nd-tier providers who might be
located in Canada.

Today, there exists almost a barter system whereby CSA astronauts are
provided Shuttle and possibly future ISS slots in exchange for Canadian
built hardware such as the Canadarms.

Without any Canadian participation in Orion/Ares, what is the future
for Canadian Space Agency astronauts in the post Shuttle/ISS world ??

In article .com,
Matthew Ota wrote:
Well NASA still has to contract out for the new lunar lander and also
the launch vehicles.
Perhaps there will be some contracts there.

It has already been explicitly stated that this is a US-only project. No
international partners, not even ones who were in the critical path for
ISS and did their job well, need apply. Minor subcontracts maybe -- like
the Apollo LM's landing legs being made in Canada -- but no substantial
deal at the government-to-government level, which is what it would take to
give the CSA astronauts a role.

Griffin did mumble about the idea of international participation in the
form of add-ons, separate from the basic hardware, but that idea got a
chilly reception (not least, because it's off in the dim and misty future)
and nothing more has been said about it.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

Rand Simberg wrote:

Without any Canadian participation in Orion/Ares, what is the future
for Canadian Space Agency astronauts in the post Shuttle/ISS world ??

Who cares? Maybe the Canadian Space Agency has to figure out better
ways to indulge in space activities.

Presumably the 17 international astronauts currently assigned to duties
at the Johnson Space Center have at least some interest. Governments
that responded to past US pleading to devote funding and resources to
support and participate in US manned spaceflight will also care about
the outcome. US government officials who are tasked with pleading with
other governments to sign on to and devote funding and resources to
other joint programs in the future could well rue a negative outcome.

It's sort of reminiscent of the famous exchange between Steve Ballmer
and Bob Metcalfe after Microsoft famously screwed 3Com into the ground
within the guise of mutual cooperation:

METCALFE: Why did you do this? What did we do wrong?

BALLMER: Your mistake was, you trusted us.

--
Dave Michelson

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 16:44:58 GMT, in a place far, far away, Dave
Michelson made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

Rand Simberg wrote:

Without any Canadian participation in Orion/Ares, what is the future
for Canadian Space Agency astronauts in the post Shuttle/ISS world ??

Who cares? Maybe the Canadian Space Agency has to figure out better
ways to indulge in space activities.

Presumably the 17 international astronauts currently assigned to duties
at the Johnson Space Center have at least some interest. Governments
that responded to past US pleading to devote funding and resources to
support and participate in US manned spaceflight will also care about
the outcome. US government officials who are tasked with pleading with
other governments to sign on to and devote funding and resources to
other joint programs in the future could well rue a negative outcome.

It's sort of reminiscent of the famous exchange between Steve Ballmer
and Bob Metcalfe after Microsoft famously screwed 3Com into the ground
within the guise of mutual cooperation:

METCALFE: Why did you do this? What did we do wrong?

BALLMER: Your mistake was, you trusted us.

Exactly. If the Canadian Charlie Brown wants to keep whiffing at
Lucy's NASA football, they deserve what they get.

"Dave Michelson" wrote in message
news:eyiKg.494726$Mn5.223931@pd7tw3no...
Presumably the 17 international astronauts currently assigned to duties
at the Johnson Space Center have at least some interest.

As untrustworthy as the US has been with ISS, why would any nation involved
with that want to be involved with Orion? I'd really like to see Europe get
serious about building their own manned launch capability, but that won't
happen without serious reform at ESA.

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:29:20 GMT, h (Rand
Simberg) wrote:

Exactly. If the Canadian Charlie Brown wants to keep whiffing at
Lucy's NASA football, they deserve what they get.

....Yeah, but the Canuckleheads have been getting what they deserve
since Dieffenbach nixed the Arrow. Since then, the country's been
going downhill from there.

OM
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