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An American Colony on Mars!



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 18th 09, 03:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Marvin the Martian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 655
Default An American Colony on Mars!

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...rin-calls-for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars
by Magnifico
Digg this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This
Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an opinion
piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold again in
space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11 flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end". Instead,
Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an American
colony" on Mars.
Ads
  #2  
Old July 18th 09, 04:20 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Uncle Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 697
Default An American Colony on Mars!

Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...rin-calls-for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars

[snip crap]

Let's have an American colony in Washington, DC.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
  #3  
Old July 18th 09, 05:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default An American Colony on Mars!

In sci.physics Marvin the Martian wrote:
Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...rin-calls-for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars
by Magnifico
Digg this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This
Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an opinion
piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold again in
space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11 flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end". Instead,
Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an American
colony" on Mars.


I can hardly wait for the first shipment of Martian Pinot Noir and
beaver pelts to arrive from the "colony".


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
  #4  
Old July 19th 09, 01:54 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default An American Colony on Mars!

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:17 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...rin-calls-for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars
by Magnifico
Digg this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This
Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an opinion
piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold again in
space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11 flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end". Instead,
Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an American
colony" on Mars.


What is the motivation for "colonizing" space? Is it not the
presumption that we are going to foul this planet beyond repair; so we
will need another planet to foul?

Perhaps a civilization that is advanced enough to colonize space hows
to take care of their home planet and doesn't need to colonize space.
Perhaps a civilization that doesn't know how to take care of its home
planet shouldn't inflict itself on pristine worlds.

What if we do find ET in our travels? Why do we suppose that he will
be benevolent rather than see us as a source of food?

We have lots of animals on this planet. How many do we want to
socialize with? Few - as pets. How many do we treat as equals? None.
Most animals on this planet are seen as food by one or more of our
societies. Why wouldn't ET see us as food? Because they respect our
intelligence? Pigs are smarter that horses. Which ends up on a dinner
plate more often in the West?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serv..._Twilight_Zone)

Maybe the "we are here" message sent with Voyager was a bad idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Or maybe ET won't know what to do with a record anymore than many on
Earth do today.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes
Memorable quotes for
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing,
it does not necessarily mean we must do that thing.
--
Adam
  #5  
Old July 19th 09, 04:13 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Marvin the Martian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 655
Default An American Colony on Mars!

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:54:42 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:17 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...-Aldrin-calls-

for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars by Magnifico
Digg this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This Thu Jul 16, 2009
at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an opinion
piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold again in
space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11 flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end".
Instead, Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an
American colony" on Mars.


What is the motivation for "colonizing" space? Is it not the presumption
that we are going to foul this planet beyond repair; so we will need
another planet to foul?

Perhaps a civilization that is advanced enough to colonize space hows to
take care of their home planet and doesn't need to colonize space.
Perhaps a civilization that doesn't know how to take care of its home
planet shouldn't inflict itself on pristine worlds.


Personally, I don't take the view that humans "foul" everything they come
into contact, nor do I find much value in dead worlds that beg to be
colonized remaining dead.

What if we do find ET in our travels? Why do we suppose that he will be
benevolent rather than see us as a source of food?


I doubt ET will be a problem.

If ET is smart enough to find us, he'd realize that it takes far more
food to bring a human to any kind of slaughter weight than he gets back
as food, and that the same animals we eat; cows, pigs and chickens, are a
far better and less contaminated food source.

Lets face it, after a decade or so, human flesh gets a nasty taste.

We have lots of animals on this planet. How many do we want to socialize
with? Few - as pets. How many do we treat as equals? None. Most animals
on this planet are seen as food by one or more of our societies. Why
wouldn't ET see us as food? Because they respect our intelligence? Pigs
are smarter that horses. Which ends up on a dinner plate more often in
the West?


Not being a liberal, I don't find dumb animals to be on par or superior
to humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serv..._Twilight_Zone)

Maybe the "we are here" message sent with Voyager was a bad idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Or maybe ET won't know what to do with a record anymore than many on
Earth do today.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes Memorable quotes for
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Let us redefine progress to mean
that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we
must do that thing.


Yeah.... I don't get my philosophy from impossible to exist star trek
societies.
  #6  
Old July 19th 09, 04:45 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default An American Colony on Mars!

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:13:56 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:54:42 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:17 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...-Aldrin-calls-

for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars by Magnifico
Digg this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This Thu Jul 16, 2009
at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an opinion
piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold again in
space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11 flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end".
Instead, Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an
American colony" on Mars.


What is the motivation for "colonizing" space? Is it not the presumption
that we are going to foul this planet beyond repair; so we will need
another planet to foul?

Perhaps a civilization that is advanced enough to colonize space hows to
take care of their home planet and doesn't need to colonize space.
Perhaps a civilization that doesn't know how to take care of its home
planet shouldn't inflict itself on pristine worlds.


Personally, I don't take the view that humans "foul" everything they come
into contact, nor do I find much value in dead worlds that beg to be
colonized remaining dead.


How many do you plan to colonoize? All of them? Otherwise, there would
still be "dead worlds that beg to be colonized remaining dead".


What if we do find ET in our travels? Why do we suppose that he will be
benevolent rather than see us as a source of food?


I doubt ET will be a problem.


Because ...?

Do you expect them to be more benevolent, tolerant, etc., than we are?
If so, why?


If ET is smart enough to find us, he'd realize that it takes far more
food to bring a human to any kind of slaughter weight than he gets back
as food, and that the same animals we eat; cows, pigs and chickens, are a
far better and less contaminated food source.

Lets face it, after a decade or so, human flesh gets a nasty taste.


Luckily, I wouldn't know.


We have lots of animals on this planet. How many do we want to socialize
with? Few - as pets. How many do we treat as equals? None. Most animals
on this planet are seen as food by one or more of our societies. Why
wouldn't ET see us as food? Because they respect our intelligence? Pigs
are smarter that horses. Which ends up on a dinner plate more often in
the West?


Not being a liberal, I don't find dumb animals to be on par or superior
to humans.


Perhaps ET won't be a liberal, either.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serv..._Twilight_Zone)

Maybe the "we are here" message sent with Voyager was a bad idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Or maybe ET won't know what to do with a record anymore than many on
Earth do today.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes Memorable quotes for
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Let us redefine progress to mean
that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we
must do that thing.


Yeah.... I don't get my philosophy from impossible to exist star trek
societies.


Where do you get your vision for colonized worlds?

--
Adam
  #7  
Old July 19th 09, 05:09 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Marvin the Martian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 655
Default An American Colony on Mars!

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:45:09 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:13:56 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:54:42 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:17 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...-Aldrin-calls-

for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars by Magnifico Digg
this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This Thu Jul 16, 2009
at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an
opinion piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold
again in space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11
flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end".
Instead, Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an
American colony" on Mars.

What is the motivation for "colonizing" space? Is it not the
presumption that we are going to foul this planet beyond repair; so we
will need another planet to foul?

Perhaps a civilization that is advanced enough to colonize space hows
to take care of their home planet and doesn't need to colonize space.
Perhaps a civilization that doesn't know how to take care of its home
planet shouldn't inflict itself on pristine worlds.


Personally, I don't take the view that humans "foul" everything they
come into contact, nor do I find much value in dead worlds that beg to
be colonized remaining dead.


How many do you plan to colonoize? All of them? Otherwise, there would
still be "dead worlds that beg to be colonized remaining dead".


Colonize Mars, just Mars. Mars is easy; it is by far the most hospitable
planet in the solar system to human life. Why, you might last 10 seconds
or so without a space suit on the surface of Mars. Put you on the surface
anywhere else, and you'd die much more quickly. These other places don't
"beg to be colonized".


What if we do find ET in our travels? Why do we suppose that he will
be benevolent rather than see us as a source of food?


I doubt ET will be a problem.


Because ...?

Do you expect them to be more benevolent, tolerant, etc., than we are?
If so, why?


I explained why they're not likely to want to eat us, in the incredibly
unlikely event that they could gain nourishment from our form of life. If
they are ETs from another planet, the odds of them having such similar
biology that they could consume us is very remote.

And then come here just to cause trouble? I don't think so. Space is BIG!
Really BIG. That they would need earth resources and would cross
interstellar space to get ours? Not likely. They'd come here to study us.

If ET is smart enough to find us, he'd realize that it takes far more
food to bring a human to any kind of slaughter weight than he gets back
as food, and that the same animals we eat; cows, pigs and chickens, are
a far better and less contaminated food source.

Lets face it, after a decade or so, human flesh gets a nasty taste.


Luckily, I wouldn't know.


Well, there are people who do know, and basically, people taste like
Pork, and you have to take all the precautions you do with pork.

We have lots of animals on this planet. How many do we want to
socialize with? Few - as pets. How many do we treat as equals? None.
Most animals on this planet are seen as food by one or more of our
societies. Why wouldn't ET see us as food? Because they respect our
intelligence? Pigs are smarter that horses. Which ends up on a dinner
plate more often in the West?


Not being a liberal, I don't find dumb animals to be on par or superior
to humans.


Perhaps ET won't be a liberal, either.


Indeed! A race that rational, that scientific, that they could come here
wouldn't be liberal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serv..._Twilight_Zone)

Maybe the "we are here" message sent with Voyager was a bad idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Or maybe ET won't know what to do with a record anymore than many on
Earth do today.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes Memorable quotes for Star
Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Let us redefine progress to mean
that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we
must do that thing.


Yeah.... I don't get my philosophy from impossible to exist star trek
societies.


Where do you get your vision for colonized worlds?


Not from Star Trek.

Look, the fundamental problem facing humanity is that while our
technology is growing at a rapid pace, our wisdom is in decline. More and
more governments, even individuals, are learning how to inflict a
gigadeath event upon humanity. It is just a matter of time before someone
does.

If we are all in one "basket", it will be game over for sure. Einstein
saw this problem and was a founder of Pugwash. Several other scientist
also see the problem, like the late Carl Sagan. I disagree with
Pugwash's approach, which is to lobotomize scientist. I think the
solution is a wiser, better educated humanity.

It's either get the best eggs off this planet, or humanity will soon
become extinct.
  #8  
Old July 19th 09, 05:34 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default An American Colony on Mars!

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:09:01 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:45:09 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:13:56 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:54:42 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:17 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...-Aldrin-calls-
for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars by Magnifico Digg
this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This Thu Jul 16, 2009
at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an
opinion piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold
again in space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11
flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end".
Instead, Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an
American colony" on Mars.

What is the motivation for "colonizing" space? Is it not the
presumption that we are going to foul this planet beyond repair; so we
will need another planet to foul?

Perhaps a civilization that is advanced enough to colonize space hows
to take care of their home planet and doesn't need to colonize space.
Perhaps a civilization that doesn't know how to take care of its home
planet shouldn't inflict itself on pristine worlds.

Personally, I don't take the view that humans "foul" everything they
come into contact, nor do I find much value in dead worlds that beg to
be colonized remaining dead.


How many do you plan to colonoize? All of them? Otherwise, there would
still be "dead worlds that beg to be colonized remaining dead".


Colonize Mars, just Mars. Mars is easy; it is by far the most hospitable
planet in the solar system to human life. Why, you might last 10 seconds
or so without a space suit on the surface of Mars. Put you on the surface
anywhere else, and you'd die much more quickly. These other places don't
"beg to be colonized".


What if we do find ET in our travels? Why do we suppose that he will
be benevolent rather than see us as a source of food?

I doubt ET will be a problem.


Because ...?

Do you expect them to be more benevolent, tolerant, etc., than we are?
If so, why?


I explained why they're not likely to want to eat us, in the incredibly
unlikely event that they could gain nourishment from our form of life. If
they are ETs from another planet, the odds of them having such similar
biology that they could consume us is very remote.

And then come here just to cause trouble? I don't think so. Space is BIG!
Really BIG. That they would need earth resources and would cross
interstellar space to get ours? Not likely. They'd come here to study us.

If ET is smart enough to find us, he'd realize that it takes far more
food to bring a human to any kind of slaughter weight than he gets back
as food, and that the same animals we eat; cows, pigs and chickens, are
a far better and less contaminated food source.

Lets face it, after a decade or so, human flesh gets a nasty taste.


Luckily, I wouldn't know.


Well, there are people who do know, and basically, people taste like
Pork, and you have to take all the precautions you do with pork.

We have lots of animals on this planet. How many do we want to
socialize with? Few - as pets. How many do we treat as equals? None.
Most animals on this planet are seen as food by one or more of our
societies. Why wouldn't ET see us as food? Because they respect our
intelligence? Pigs are smarter that horses. Which ends up on a dinner
plate more often in the West?

Not being a liberal, I don't find dumb animals to be on par or superior
to humans.


Perhaps ET won't be a liberal, either.


Indeed! A race that rational, that scientific, that they could come here
wouldn't be liberal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serv..._Twilight_Zone)

Maybe the "we are here" message sent with Voyager was a bad idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Or maybe ET won't know what to do with a record anymore than many on
Earth do today.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes Memorable quotes for Star
Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Let us redefine progress to mean
that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we
must do that thing.

Yeah.... I don't get my philosophy from impossible to exist star trek
societies.


Where do you get your vision for colonized worlds?


Not from Star Trek.

Look, the fundamental problem facing humanity is that while our
technology is growing at a rapid pace, our wisdom is in decline. More and
more governments, even individuals, are learning how to inflict a
gigadeath event upon humanity. It is just a matter of time before someone
does.


So the drive to colonize space is driven by a fear of the planet being
fouled after all.



If we are all in one "basket", it will be game over for sure. Einstein
saw this problem and was a founder of Pugwash. Several other scientist
also see the problem, like the late Carl Sagan. I disagree with
Pugwash's approach, which is to lobotomize scientist. I think the
solution is a wiser, better educated humanity.

It's either get the best eggs off this planet, or humanity will soon
become extinct.


Maybe not liberal, but this sounds elitest. They are to leave the rest
of us to die in a mess that "the best eggs" might have found a way to
forestall? Aren't these wonderful examples of humanity?

So we send those who are both the most capable and the most selfish to
seed a new world? What would a world be like where it is all chiefs
and no indians? Is this the makings of a harmonious second Eden?

There was some good philosophy in Star Trek.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Space_Seed_(episode)
"But you left at the very time mankind needed courage."

"Have you ever read Milton, captain?"

-
Adam
  #9  
Old July 19th 09, 07:03 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
G. L. Bradford
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 258
Default An American Colony on Mars!


"Adam" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:09:01 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:45:09 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:13:56 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:54:42 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:17 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...-Aldrin-calls-
for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars by Magnifico Digg
this! Share this on Twitter - Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American
colony" on MarsTweet this submit to reddit Share This Thu Jul 16, 2009
at 01:49:51 PM PDT

Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an
opinion piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold
again in space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11
flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end".
Instead, Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an
American colony" on Mars.

What is the motivation for "colonizing" space? Is it not the
presumption that we are going to foul this planet beyond repair; so we
will need another planet to foul?

Perhaps a civilization that is advanced enough to colonize space hows
to take care of their home planet and doesn't need to colonize space.
Perhaps a civilization that doesn't know how to take care of its home
planet shouldn't inflict itself on pristine worlds.

Personally, I don't take the view that humans "foul" everything they
come into contact, nor do I find much value in dead worlds that beg to
be colonized remaining dead.

How many do you plan to colonoize? All of them? Otherwise, there would
still be "dead worlds that beg to be colonized remaining dead".


Colonize Mars, just Mars. Mars is easy; it is by far the most hospitable
planet in the solar system to human life. Why, you might last 10 seconds
or so without a space suit on the surface of Mars. Put you on the surface
anywhere else, and you'd die much more quickly. These other places don't
"beg to be colonized".


What if we do find ET in our travels? Why do we suppose that he will
be benevolent rather than see us as a source of food?

I doubt ET will be a problem.

Because ...?

Do you expect them to be more benevolent, tolerant, etc., than we are?
If so, why?


I explained why they're not likely to want to eat us, in the incredibly
unlikely event that they could gain nourishment from our form of life. If
they are ETs from another planet, the odds of them having such similar
biology that they could consume us is very remote.

And then come here just to cause trouble? I don't think so. Space is BIG!
Really BIG. That they would need earth resources and would cross
interstellar space to get ours? Not likely. They'd come here to study us.

If ET is smart enough to find us, he'd realize that it takes far more
food to bring a human to any kind of slaughter weight than he gets back
as food, and that the same animals we eat; cows, pigs and chickens, are
a far better and less contaminated food source.

Lets face it, after a decade or so, human flesh gets a nasty taste.

Luckily, I wouldn't know.


Well, there are people who do know, and basically, people taste like
Pork, and you have to take all the precautions you do with pork.

We have lots of animals on this planet. How many do we want to
socialize with? Few - as pets. How many do we treat as equals? None.
Most animals on this planet are seen as food by one or more of our
societies. Why wouldn't ET see us as food? Because they respect our
intelligence? Pigs are smarter that horses. Which ends up on a dinner
plate more often in the West?

Not being a liberal, I don't find dumb animals to be on par or superior
to humans.

Perhaps ET won't be a liberal, either.


Indeed! A race that rational, that scientific, that they could come here
wouldn't be liberal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serv..._Twilight_Zone)

Maybe the "we are here" message sent with Voyager was a bad idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Or maybe ET won't know what to do with a record anymore than many on
Earth do today.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes Memorable quotes for Star
Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Let us redefine progress to mean
that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we
must do that thing.

Yeah.... I don't get my philosophy from impossible to exist star trek
societies.

Where do you get your vision for colonized worlds?


Not from Star Trek.

Look, the fundamental problem facing humanity is that while our
technology is growing at a rapid pace, our wisdom is in decline. More and
more governments, even individuals, are learning how to inflict a
gigadeath event upon humanity. It is just a matter of time before someone
does.


So the drive to colonize space is driven by a fear of the planet being
fouled after all.



If we are all in one "basket", it will be game over for sure. Einstein
saw this problem and was a founder of Pugwash. Several other scientist
also see the problem, like the late Carl Sagan. I disagree with
Pugwash's approach, which is to lobotomize scientist. I think the
solution is a wiser, better educated humanity.

It's either get the best eggs off this planet, or humanity will soon
become extinct.


Maybe not liberal, but this sounds elitest. They are to leave the rest
of us to die in a mess that "the best eggs" might have found a way to
forestall? Aren't these wonderful examples of humanity?

So we send those who are both the most capable and the most selfish to
seed a new world? What would a world be like where it is all chiefs
and no indians? Is this the makings of a harmonious second Eden?

There was some good philosophy in Star Trek.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Space_Seed_(episode)
"But you left at the very time mankind needed courage."

"Have you ever read Milton, captain?"

-
Adam


=============================

Neither of you are very good at vision. Most of life on Earth, such as
most bugs and trees, are soft on the inside and have a hard covering on the
outside against the elements. We will be the same except our hardened units
and exo-skeletal structures we will live and work in, or just move around
outside in, will include better limbs (as many as we need) and also
something not included in all the other quadrillions or more of hard shelled
cells and flora and fauna, remote action (remote robotics).

In space colonies, the space of the solar system from end to end can be
rabbit holed (man made from the titanic amount of matter masses)....with all
manner of mobile corridors (ships) connecting the whole in a potential
infinity of possible lanes.

Since there is also a titanic amount of energy pervading all space, the
enormously greater accessibility to that amount of energy; the enormously
broader frontage space colonies and other in-space mobiles will present to
that amount of energy....well money is no more than a token of energy, and
life itself is energy in action dealing in all life's complexity (including
expansion and growth, and the increasing divisions -- evolutions and
revolutions -- in life to fill every nook and situation, including
irreconcilably opposed situations, life can fill (to the "Better World"
Utopia's utter and eternal horror)).

GL

==============================

  #10  
Old July 19th 09, 05:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default An American Colony on Mars!

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:03:41 -0400, G. L. Bradford wrote:

Neither of you are very good at vision. Most of life on Earth, such as
most bugs and trees, are soft on the inside and have a hard covering on the
outside against the elements.


Those would be lower life forms. "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery;
Ignorance is Strength." Reversion is evolution.


We will be the same except our hardened units


So much for the spontaneous touch of a caring hand, etc.


and exo-skeletal structures we will live and work in, or just move around
outside in, will include better limbs (as many as we need) and also
something not included in all the other quadrillions or more of hard shelled
cells and flora and fauna, remote action (remote robotics).


"Let's have a romantic evening, dear. We'll hold articulated
end-effectors and watch the sunset."

So much for the spontaneous touch of a caring hand, etc.


It is necessary to wear all manner of protection against the cold at
the north pole. Such is not the case in Southern California. Which has
the greater population density? Why?

If you want to settle hostile territory, the north pole is much more
accessible than Mars. And help is a lot closer if you get into
trouble.

Build a working, independent settlement at the north pole. Show the
world that it is a desirable way to live. Then you might find informed
enthusiasm to do the same on Mars.

Today's enthusiasm to colonize Mars seems uninformed, half-baked,
and/or self-serving.


In space colonies, the space of the solar system from end to end can be
rabbit holed (man made from the titanic amount of matter masses)....


Rabbit holed where? The solar system is mostly empty space. How far is
it between rabbit holes?

What fraction of that "titanic amount of matter masses" is metal? As
said better in another thread, how much effort will it take (in a
hostile environment with no low-hanging fruit) to extract and
fabricate that metal into ships, etc.


with all
manner of mobile corridors (ships) connecting the whole in a potential
infinity of possible lanes.


From where to where?


Since there is also a titanic amount of energy pervading all space,


Energy is relatively easy to find. Useful energy is not. We need
useful power (useful energy employed in a useful time frame).

Noting the presence of energy is easy. Doing something useful with it
is not. How will useful power be derived from the "titanic amount of
energy pervading all space"? As said well in another thread, the "how"
will require machinery. Where did that machinery come from? Who built
it? At what cost?


the
enormously greater accessibility to that amount of energy; the enormously
broader frontage space colonies and other in-space mobiles will present to
that amount of energy....


This assumes an infrastructure to gather and use that energy. Who
built it? At what cost?


well money is no more than a token of energy, and
life itself is energy in action dealing in all life's complexity


The point being ...?


(including
expansion and growth, and the increasing divisions -- evolutions and
revolutions -- in life to fill every nook and situation, including
irreconcilably opposed situations, life can fill (to the "Better World"
Utopia's utter and eternal horror)).


The goal being ...?

--
Adam
 




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