ISS-104-Soyuz records

Once Soyuz launches, the 12 people in space simo
will be one short of the record of 13 [extra credit -- when
how many times?], but I suspect it WILL be a
record for largest number of space travelers of
different national origin simo -- six. Yuh think?

Jim Oberg wrote:
Once Soyuz launches, the 12 people in space simo
will be one short of the record of 13 [extra credit -- when
how many times?], but I suspect it WILL be a
record for largest number of space travelers of
different national origin simo -- six. Yuh think?

Shh! You're just encouraging the NASA PAO to return to promotion of
stunts over actual accomplishment.

Oh, that would be STS-82/Discovery, Mir, Soyuz TM-24, Soyuz TM-25 USA,
Russia, Germany in 1997 and STS-89/Endeavour, MIR, Soyuz TM-26, Soyuz
TM-27 (USA, Russia, Kazakhstan, France) in 1998.

This time, we have crew from USA, Russia, Germany, Canada, and ....?

--
Dave Michelson

How about Viktorenko, Kondakova, and Polyakov on Mir,
joined March 14, 1995, by Dezhurov, Strekalov, and Thagard
(Soyuz TM-21), while STS-67 (Astro-2) was in orbit
March 2-18, with Oswald, Gregory, Jernigan, Grunsfeld,
Lawrence, Parise, and Durrance?

"Dave Michelson" wrote in message
news:7PdNg.543321$IK3.371611@pd7tw1no...
Jim Oberg wrote:
Once Soyuz launches, the 12 people in space simo
will be one short of the record of 13 [extra credit -- when
how many times?], but I suspect it WILL be a
record for largest number of space travelers of
different national origin simo -- six. Yuh think?

Shh! You're just encouraging the NASA PAO to return to promotion of
stunts over actual accomplishment.

Oh, that would be STS-82/Discovery, Mir, Soyuz TM-24, Soyuz TM-25 USA,
Russia, Germany in 1997 and STS-89/Endeavour, MIR, Soyuz TM-26, Soyuz
TM-27 (USA, Russia, Kazakhstan, France) in 1998.

This time, we have crew from USA, Russia, Germany, Canada, and ....?

--
Dave Michelson

Danny Dot wrote:

"Dave Michelson" wrote in message
news:7PdNg.543321$IK3.371611@pd7tw1no...
Jim Oberg wrote:
Once Soyuz launches, the 12 people in space simo
will be one short of the record of 13 [extra credit -- when
how many times?], but I suspect it WILL be a
record for largest number of space travelers of
different national origin simo -- six. Yuh think?

Shh! You're just encouraging the NASA PAO to return to promotion of
stunts over actual accomplishment.

Oh, that would be STS-82/Discovery, Mir, Soyuz TM-24, Soyuz TM-25 USA,
Russia, Germany in 1997 and STS-89/Endeavour, MIR, Soyuz TM-26, Soyuz
TM-27 (USA, Russia, Kazakhstan, France) in 1998.


The "stunt" issue is HUGE in the early Russian space program. Most of what
they did was a stunt to beat us. And they were GREAT at this.
1. First satillite in orbit
2. First man in space
3. First woman in space
4. First more than one man (they sent 3 just to send a message)
5. First space walk

All stunts to beat us. I really respect them for this actually. There
objective was to beat us -- and they did. If their "big ass booster" had
worked I think they would have put a man on the moon before us. But their
"big ass booster" kept blowing up on ascent. The rest is history.

P.S. Apollo 8 was actually a stunt for us to send men around the moon. Not
well known is the Russians were very close to having a Soyuz send a man
around the moon (it was called Zond). At the last minute we changed Apollo
8 from Low Earth Orbit to around the moon because we knew they were close to
sending a man to the moon (around the moon) before us.

Danny Dot
www.mobbinggonemad.org

In article ,
Danny Dot wrote:
objective was to beat us -- and they did. If their "big ass booster" had
worked I think they would have put a man on the moon before us...

No, even if the N1 had worked well, they were far enough behind that their
only real chance was for Apollo to stumble and be delayed a bit. Which
was not a totally unrealistic hope, but in the end it didn't happen. See,
in particular, Siddiqi's "Challenge to Apollo" for the details (which are
much better understood now than they were 15 years ago).

P.S. Apollo 8 was actually a stunt for us to send men around the moon. Not
well known is the Russians were very close to having a Soyuz send a man
around the moon (it was called Zond).

You need to read some more-recent books, like the Siddiqi one. The US
*thought* the Soviets were very close to doing a manned Zond, but in
fact they weren't.

The Soviet criteria for manned flights were actually more rigorous than
the US ones -- they wanted to see two full successes of unmanned flights
before going manned. (Manning Apollo 8 at all, after the Apollo 6 mess,
was a very bold step indeed.) And the Zond tests were not nearly as
successful as they looked from outside; in particular, the Soviets made
much of the photographs taken by Zond 6, without mentioning that the
film was salvaged, with great difficulty and some danger, from the
smashed wreckage of the Zond capsule. Zond 7, which flew three weeks
after Apollo 11, was the first fully successful Zond... by which time,
nobody cared.

At the last minute we changed Apollo 8
from Low Earth Orbit to around the moon because we knew they were close to
sending a man to the moon (around the moon) before us.

It wasn't "last minute" -- preparation for it was underway in mid-August,
but the change was tentative and highly confidential until after Apollo 7
flew successfully in October. But yes, fears of a manned Zond figured
into that decision.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

Danny Dot wrote:

The "stunt" issue is HUGE in the early Russian space program. Most of what
they did was a stunt to beat us. And they were GREAT at this.
1. First satillite in orbit
2. First man in space
3. First woman in space
4. First more than one man (they sent 3 just to send a message)
5. First space walk



First live animal in orbit!
First dead animal in orbit!
First animals to circumnavigate the Moon!
First dead animals to circumnavigate the Moon!
First space station crew!
First dead space station crew!
SOCIALISM MARCHES FORWARD!

At the last minute we changed Apollo
8 from Low Earth Orbit to around the moon because we knew they were close to
sending a man to the moon (around the moon) before us.



COMRADE! The Soviet Union sent a turtle around the Moon before Apollo 8!
"A turtle?" you ask...
You bet your sweet ass it was a turtle!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tb...urtle_home.gif

Pat

Henry Spencer wrote:

No, even if the N1 had worked well, they were far enough behind that their
only real chance was for Apollo to stumble and be delayed a bit. Which
was not a totally unrealistic hope, but in the end it didn't happen. See,
in particular, Siddiqi's "Challenge to Apollo" for the details (which are
much better understood now than they were 15 years ago).


Particularly in that they intended to do twelve successful N-1 launches
(if that can be believed) before doing the manned lunar mission.

Pat

Hardly 'highly confidential', the possibility was in the news immediately.
I was hitchhiking through Eastern Europe that summer and got to Greece.
I heard it in a VOA broadcast one night in late August as I dined in
a small trattoria on the bay on Mytilene Island in the Aegean, with
the moon reflecting in the bay waters. It was a magical moment.

"Henry Spencer" wrote
It wasn't "last minute" -- preparation for it was underway in mid-August,
but the change was tentative and highly confidential until after Apollo 7
flew successfully in October. But yes, fears of a manned Zond figured
into that decision.

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...

First live animal in orbit!
First dead animal in orbit!
First animals to circumnavigate the Moon!
First dead animals to circumnavigate the Moon!
First space station crew!
First dead space station crew!
SOCIALISM MARCHES FORWARD!

The US program wasn't much better in this regard. In the news, each
superpower hyped its own successes while hyping the failure of the other.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

Danny Dot wrote:
"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...

The Soviet criteria for manned flights were actually more rigorous than
the US ones -- they wanted to see two full successes of unmanned flights
before going manned. (Manning Apollo 8 at all, after the Apollo 6 mess,
was a very bold step indeed.) And the Zond tests were not nearly as
successful as they looked from outside; in particular, the Soviets made
much of the photographs taken by Zond 6, without mentioning that the
film was salvaged, with great difficulty and some danger, from the
smashed wreckage of the Zond capsule. Zond 7, which flew three weeks
after Apollo 11, was the first fully successful Zond... by which time,
nobody cared.

The Zonds had a lot of ballistic entries that ended up in the Indian Ocean
(v.s. the planned skipped entry into Russia). The darn thing would pull
20G;s but apparently the human body can take this much for a short time. I
have seen centrifuge testing reports of the US Navy doing simulated 20 G
entries. They did this in the early 60s. The crew stayed alert and could
fly a thumbwheel throughout the profile.

Danny Dot
www.mobbinggonemad.org