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#11
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Sad Christmas Story
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:39:37 -0500, Davoud wrote:
At the end of the story Mr. MacRobert's biographical sketch says "Alan MacRobert independently disproved the existence of Santa Claus around age 7, by dividing the number of houses in North America by the number of minutes in the night before Christmas. He found the process liberating rather than disappointing." Liberated from the magic of childhood at only age 7? Seven seems an excellent age for a child to start understanding the beauty of a Universe in which understanding can come from rational thought processes alone. Good scientists (and rationalists in general) are those who _never_ lose the magic of childhood- something that really has nothing to do with believing in Santa Claus. _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com |
#12
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Sad Christmas Story
"Intelligent Design" is neither!
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#13
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Sad Christmas Story
Davoud wrote:
If you read this evening's S&T news bulletin, you may have followed the link to the story about the Christmas morning occultation of Spica by the Moon http://tinyurl.com/77lpy. The story was well written by one Alan M. MacRobert. At the end of the story Mr. MacRobert's biographical sketch says "Alan MacRobert independently disproved the existence of Santa Claus around age 7, by dividing the number of houses in North America by the number of minutes in the night before Christmas. He found the process liberating rather than disappointing." Liberated from the magic of childhood at only age 7? I can't help but imagine what might have happened if Mr. MacRobert had been a budding biologist at age 7: "Alan MacRobert received a puppy for Christmas around age 7, and he dissected it..." Davoud HOWL of laughter! I'm with you D. Thanks for the terrific pre-Christmas giggle. And as for the idea that reason is necessary for beauty... Lord what a depressing thought. A world of rational automatons, housed in pre-fab Bauhaus concrete blocks. Sounds like something that birdbrain Gordon Liddy, who claims to have married his wife for breeding potential, would say. "The mind has its reasons, whereof reason knows nothing." Let me love in peace, thanks. Happy hols to all. Chris |
#14
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Sad Christmas Story
I wouldn't say that's sad at all, it would just mean that he had awaken to
the Real World. I was a bit older, but I have my own story of awaking and it was not so nice, but it awoke me to the real world too. -- The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net In Garden Online Gift Shop http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden Blast Off Online Gift Shop http://www.cafepress.com/starlords "Davoud" wrote in message ... Liberated from the magic of childhood at only age 7? I can't help but imagine what might have happened if Mr. MacRobert had been a budding biologist at age 7: "Alan MacRobert received a puppy for Christmas around age 7, and he dissected it..." Davoud -- usenet *at* davidillig dawt com |
#15
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Sad Christmas Story
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 09:46:06 -0600, starburst wrote:
And as for the idea that reason is necessary for beauty... Lord what a depressing thought. A world of rational automatons, housed in pre-fab Bauhaus concrete blocks. You have a peculiar sense of "reason". Your definition and mine have nothing in common at all. _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com |
#16
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Sad Christmas Story
Chris L Peterson:
Seven seems an excellent age for a child to start understanding the beauty of a Universe in which understanding can come from rational thought processes alone. I was a prodigy -- taught to read by age two, though not by intention, I think. First complete book I remember reading was a science fiction paperback that attracted me only because I was fascinated by the strange creatures on the cover. Age four, maybe. I don't know the level of my "rational thought processes" at that age, but that book transported me -- at superluminal speed no less -- to worlds that I /knew/ didn't exist. Now that's magic! Then I found Tolkien and came damned close to inventing the phrase "blown away." Books (and sometimes movies) can still do that for me. I had been reading magazine articles well before age 4 -- I remember my grandfather's Mechanics Illustrated and the National Geographic. Started reading about the stars at about the same age -- my Dad had been a ship's navigator before the Great Depression. Got my subscription to Scientific American at age 5. Had no trouble distinguishing between benign myth and reality, be it beautiful or harsh. Still don't. Believed in Santa Claus. Still do, metaphorically. Today, at age 61, when a child asks me if I believe in Santa Claus (as will happen tomorrow with many children visiting,) I say of course I do. "But how does he..." "Magic, that's how." I have yet to destroy any young intellects in this way. Good scientists (and rationalists in general) are those who _never_ lose the magic of childhood- something that really has nothing to do with believing in Santa Claus. Jeez! Next I'll be accused of attempting to legislate Santa Claus into the schools! My remarks on believing in Santa Claus may be seen as a metaphor for the magical myths that are cherished by children in every society. A child's belief in those myths does nothing to stifle the rational thought process; indeed, I am quite convinced that they help to jump start it. One of the brightest people I know -- a dear friend, colleague, fellow Humanist-Rationalist, fellow progressive, PhD(s), respected researcher, theoretician, teacher, &c -- has probably never read a work of fiction in his life, except maybe as assigned in some academic course. Didn't read Tolkien, saw only the first Star Wars, didn't get it. Gets dragged by his wife (also an academician) to Harry Potter movies, doesn't enjoy them. Definitely has a chunk missing from his life. I blame his upbringing by a strict, humanist-rationalist father who happened to be be a Christian minister -- and no, I don't see a contradiction there. Davoud -- usenet *at* davidillig dawt com |
#17
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Sad Christmas Story
Davoud wrote: At the end of the story Mr. MacRobert's biographical sketch says "Alan MacRobert independently disproved the existence of Santa Claus around age 7, by dividing the number of houses in North America by the number of minutes in the night before Christmas. He found the process liberating rather than disappointing." Liberated from the magic of childhood at only age 7? I can't help but imagine what might have happened if Mr. MacRobert had been a budding biologist at age 7: "Alan MacRobert received a puppy for Christmas around age 7, and he dissected it..." Hi Davoud: I don't find this "sad;" I find it a rather charming story about an intellectually precocious young man (who grew up to be a talented writer and observer). A part of me is glad my buddies and I back in the 60s continued to believe in good old Father Christmas long after we "should" have..but the thing is, nobody liberated us from our beliefs...we just grew out of them, as Alan apparently outgrew his (albeit a few years before we did) without being liberated from them. ;-) Anyhoo...HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND ALL THE GOOD FOLK ON S.A.A. (or is saying "happy _holidays_" no longer politically correct? Not that I care... ;-)). Peace, Rod Mollise Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_ and _The Urban Astronomer's Guide_ Like SCTs and MCTs? Join the SCT User Mailing List. http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/sct-user See my home page at http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland/index.htm for further info For Uncle Rod's Astro Blog See: http://journals.aol.com/rmollise/UncleRodsAstroBlog/ |
#18
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Sad Christmas Story
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 11:13:05 -0500, Davoud wrote:
Gets dragged by his wife (also an academician) to Harry Potter movies, doesn't enjoy them. Definitely has a chunk missing from his life. That only makes him exceedingly sane and rational IMHO. Jim |
#19
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Sad Christmas Story
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 11:13:05 -0500, Davoud wrote:
Had no trouble distinguishing between benign myth and reality, be it beautiful or harsh. Still don't. Believed in Santa Claus. Still do, metaphorically. Of course, and that is what distinguishes you as a rational person. Today, at age 61, when a child asks me if I believe in Santa Claus (as will happen tomorrow with many children visiting,) I say of course I do. "But how does he..." "Magic, that's how." I have yet to destroy any young intellects in this way. Excellent. This is something that true intellects work out for themselves. Jeez! Next I'll be accused of attempting to legislate Santa Claus into the schools! My remarks on believing in Santa Claus may be seen as a metaphor for the magical myths that are cherished by children in every society. I understood your meaning, Davoud. I used "Santa Claus" in the same sense. A child's belief in those myths does nothing to stifle the rational thought process; indeed, I am quite convinced that they help to jump start it. I agree. One of the brightest people I know -- a dear friend, colleague, fellow Humanist-Rationalist, fellow progressive, PhD(s), respected researcher, theoretician, teacher, &c -- has probably never read a work of fiction in his life, except maybe as assigned in some academic course. Didn't read Tolkien, saw only the first Star Wars, didn't get it. Gets dragged by his wife (also an academician) to Harry Potter movies, doesn't enjoy them. Definitely has a chunk missing from his life. I agree. His seems a very sad world view to me. I blame his upbringing by a strict, humanist-rationalist father who happened to be be a Christian minister -- and no, I don't see a contradiction there. Agreed, there is not necessarily a contradiction there. But neither is there any contradiction between being a "strict, humanist-rationalist" and someone who appreciates the power and beauty of myth. It just sounds to me like your friend was raised badly (in certain respects)- nothing specifically related to the labels you've used. _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com |
#20
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Sad Christmas Story
elaich wrote:
Davoud wrote in : Liberated from the magic of childhood at only age 7? I can't help but imagine what might have happened if Mr. MacRobert had been a budding biologist at age 7: "Alan MacRobert received a puppy for Christmas around age 7, and he dissected it..." Yet, grown adults disbelieve intelligent design, which is apparent in all we see, and believe the myth of evolution, of which the collected proof can be contained on a foldup card table. I suppose blind people just keep believing the lies they were told from childhood until death. The Intelligent Designer: http://www.csps.minx.co.uk/epiimgs/411/god1.gif |
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