The instant solution to global warming, zero energy (no yeah right, hydrogen combustion)

Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis using the
car's battery
(first water waste from air conditioners, then electrolysis separates
hydrogen
from the air and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

A hydrogen combustion engine is described here.

http://www.ca.sandia.gov/crf/researc...ngines/PFI.php

I merely remove the dependency to pertroleum.

This car would not need a gas tank, there is no risk of explosion,
and the car takes energy from the air as it goes.

I ran a test, and extracted a liter of water 'from the air' in one
minute
using an air conditioner.

Electrolysis produces instant hydrogen gas, the hydrogen bubbles
are bubbling fast in the water.

One might ask if so simple, why didn't they do this 50 years ago.

Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis using the
car's battery
(first water waste from air conditioners, then electrolysis separates
hydrogen
from the air and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

A hydrogen combustion engine is described here.

http://www.ca.sandia.gov/crf/researc...ngines/PFI.php

I merely remove the dependency to pertroleum.

This car would not need a gas tank, there is no risk of explosion,
and the car takes energy from the air as it goes.

I ran a test, and extracted a liter of water 'from the air' in one
minute
using an air conditioner.

Electrolysis produces instant hydrogen gas, the hydrogen bubbles
are bubbling fast in the water.

One might ask if so simple, why didn't they do this 50 years ago.

A simple mechanic can do it, and the car should accept the hydrogen
gas with the existing engine.

The battery can run an air conditioner that produces waste water.
An electrolysis, can extract hydrogen, and the extracted hydrogen
leading directly to the engine.

Not even expensive. Cheap. A car that runs with 120 miles without
a gas tank, and can travel around the world without stopping (with
good tires).

On Feb 2, 8:17 am, wrote:
Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis using the
car's battery
(first water waste from air conditioners, then electrolysis separates
hydrogen
from the air and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

A hydrogen combustion engine is described here.

http://www.ca.sandia.gov/crf/researc...ngines/PFI.php

I merely remove the dependency to pertroleum.

This car would not need a gas tank, there is no risk of explosion,
and the car takes energy from the air as it goes.

I ran a test, and extracted a liter of water 'from the air' in one
minute
using an air conditioner.

Electrolysis produces instant hydrogen gas, the hydrogen bubbles
are bubbling fast in the water.

One might ask if so simple, why didn't they do this 50 years ago.

A simple mechanic can do it, and the car should accept the hydrogen
gas with the existing engine.

The battery can run an air conditioner that produces waste water.
An electrolysis, can extract hydrogen, and the extracted hydrogen
leading directly to the engine.

Not even expensive. Cheap. A car that runs with 120 miles without
a gas tank, and can travel around the world without stopping (with
good tires).

Typo: A car that can run 120 miles/hour.

Dear gb6...:

Off topic in sci.astro. Adding sci.chem

On Feb 2, 7:54 am, wrote:
Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

(first water waste from air conditioners, then
electrolysis separates hydrogen from the air

.... water ...

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not consider real
inefficiencies.

A hydrogen combustion engine is described here.

http://www.ca.sandia.gov/crf/researc...ngines/PFI.php

I merely remove the dependency to pertroleum.

No. The battery case is made from petroleum. The refrigerant is made
from petroleum. The metals are worked in heat produced by petroleum,
and refined and mined using petroleum.

This car would not need a gas tank, there is no risk
of explosion, and the car takes energy from the air
as it goes.

I ran a test, and extracted a liter of water 'from the air'
in one minute using an air conditioner.

It was either raining, or you had a very large power bill.

Electrolysis produces instant hydrogen gas, the
hydrogen bubbles are bubbling fast in the water.

A very inefficient process, electrolysis. That is why if you buy
hydrogen gas today, it is "mined" from fossil fuels.

One might ask if so simple, why didn't they do this
50 years ago.

They knew thermodynamics even then. "Over unity" does not happen in
this Universe.

David A. Smith

On Feb 2, 8:45 am, "dlzc" wrote:
Dear gb6...:

Off topic in sci.astro. Adding sci.chem

On Feb 2, 7:54 am, wrote:

Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

The 60 percent loss applies only if its electric.

Hydrogen can be used to replace gasolene in ordinary cars. This is
trivial,
but you have to use your brain.

As trivial it means that we all should understand.

You have probably heard of hydrogen combustion engine. There are two
types of hydrogen engines. When oxygen and hydrogen mixes, electricity
is produced. There are busses in Chicago that use this technology, and
the electricity produced runs these busses. Here the 60 percent energy
efficiency is true. Here when oxygen and hydrogen is mixed, a product
aside from electricity is water. This is a beautiful and silent
technology, and relies on the transportation of hydrogen as fuel.

The second, and the most ignored version of a hydrogen based engine,
is hydrogen combustion. Hydrogen is gas that burns and works perfectly
with most traditional car engines.

What I ask as a preservation of technology, is based on my trivial
understanding that hydrogen using electricity can be extracted from
water, and water can be extracted from the air using electricity, as a
waste product of air conditioners.

The possibility is there for an engine that
extracts hydrogen from the air using a car's battery, and uses that
hydrogen as a replacement to gasoline.

I have extracted a liter of water in one minute using an air
conditioner.

Electrolysis using a car's battery produces instant hydrogen, which
can be directly directed to the car's engine for combustion.
In fact this is so simple, that a car mechanic could do it very
cheaply. In East Europe a lot of people cheat by installing propaine
tanks in their cars as a cheaper means of gas, as gasoline in Europe
is expensive. A car with a traditional engine could also take
hydrogen, and hydrogen can be very easily extracted using electricity
and electrolysis.

+------------------------+
| |
| Traditional car engine |---+
| | |
+------------------------+ |
| |
| |
+-------------+ |
| + - | |
| produces | |
| electricity | |H
| (battery) | |
+-------------+ |
| \ |
| \ |
+-----------------+ +--------------+
| | | electrolysis |
| air conditioner | | produces |
| produces water |--| hydrogen gas |
| | | from water |
+-----------------+ +--------------+

Upon starting up the car, one might see the battery starting
electrolysis, and instantly hydrogen gas is produced.
Then as the gas moves to the engine, the engine can start up using the
instant generation of hydrogen gas from water, and water from air.
What people don't see, is how effective extracting water from air and
hydrogen from water is.

Free energy ideas are generally dismissed, as so many tried and failed
in general. This concept is zero energy (self sufficient), meaning the
energy power is in the burning of hydrogen, but to extract hydrogen
from the air reaquires less energy, than what this engine produces by
burning hydrogen.

What this means is that hydrogen would not need to be transported as
oil. Hydrogen is extracted in place, by a car, by a device that
produces energy placed near a home, the energy becomes taking it
directly from the air, and by trivial means of extracting hydrogen
from the air and burning it. It means the collapse of the global
economy, as this technology is so simple, that an ordinary car
mechanic could do. It means politics, but it is also important, that
it is not patented away from all people, a preservation and government
control is needed for this technology.

Al Gore is interested in solutions that benefit all people, that
tackles global warming, solutions that also benefit the world. I
believe this is one of the interested solution available for research.



(first water waste from air conditioners, then
electrolysis separates hydrogen from the air

... water ...

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not consider real
inefficiencies.

Ok. Why should we believe till we see it. Why should we see it,
if we don't want to believe it.

Dear gb6...:

On Feb 2, 10:24 am, wrote:
On Feb 2, 8:45 am, "dlzc" wrote:
....
Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

The 60 percent loss applies only if its electric.

Electrolysis is electric. 60% applies.

Hydrogen can be used to replace gasolene in ordinary cars.
This is trivial, but you have to use your brain.

You have to replace your exhaust system. You have to adjust your
timing. You have to monitor your lubricants. It is not "trivial",
and yes, please do use your brain.

As trivial it means that we all should understand.

You haven't yet.

You have probably heard of hydrogen combustion engine.

MythBusters, if nowhere else.

There are two types of hydrogen engines. When oxygen
and hydrogen mixes, electricity is produced.

fuel cells. 80% efficient. Extremely intolerant of contaminants in
their fuel and oxidizer supply.

There are busses in Chicago that use this technology, and
the electricity produced runs these busses. Here the 60
percent energy efficiency is true.

No.

Here when oxygen and hydrogen is mixed, a product
aside from electricity is water. This is a beautiful and silent
technology, and relies on the transportation of hydrogen
as fuel.

The second, and the most ignored version of a hydrogen
based engine, is hydrogen combustion. Hydrogen is gas
that burns and works perfectly with most traditional car
engines.

For a while, yes.

What I ask as a preservation of technology, is based on
my trivial understanding that hydrogen using electricity
can be extracted from water,

60% loss of energy here.

and water can be extracted from the air using electricity,

Some places easier than others. Some times of year easier than
others. All require *significant* energy inputs to do so. On the
order of what you expect to get out of it, plus a bit more for
entropy.

as a waste product of air conditioners.

Which don't run year round.

The possibility is there for an engine that extracts
hydrogen from the air using a car's battery, and uses
that hydrogen as a replacement to gasoline.

The infernal combustion engine is about 30% efficient on a good day.
You lose energy condensing water.
You lose energy electrolysing water (yes more than you get out of it
in hydrogen, right here).
You lose energy burning it in an infernal combustion engine.
You lose energy in converting shaft work back to electricity.

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not
consider real inefficiencies.

Ok. Why should we believe till we see it. Why should
we see it, if we don't want to believe it.

Been tried. Even carefully, the second law of thermodynamics prevents
"over unity" devices from working.

Your "good intenions" are just noise, and are off topic in sci.astro.

David A. Smith

On Feb 2, 10:24 am, wrote:
On Feb 2, 8:45 am, "dlzc" wrote:

Dear gb6...:

Off topic in sci.astro. Adding sci.chem

On Feb 2, 7:54 am, wrote:

Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

The 60 percent loss applies only if its electric.

Hydrogen can be used to replace gasolene in ordinary cars. This is
trivial,
but you have to use your brain.

As trivial it means that we all should understand.

You have probably heard of hydrogen combustion engine. There are two
types of hydrogen engines. When oxygen and hydrogen mixes, electricity
is produced. There are busses in Chicago that use this technology, and
the electricity produced runs these busses. Here the 60 percent energy
efficiency is true. Here when oxygen and hydrogen is mixed, a product
aside from electricity is water. This is a beautiful and silent
technology, and relies on the transportation of hydrogen as fuel.

The second, and the most ignored version of a hydrogen based engine,
is hydrogen combustion. Hydrogen is gas that burns and works perfectly
with most traditional car engines.

What I ask as a preservation of technology, is based on my trivial
understanding that hydrogen using electricity can be extracted from
water, and water can be extracted from the air using electricity, as a
waste product of air conditioners.

The possibility is there for an engine that
extracts hydrogen from the air using a car's battery, and uses that
hydrogen as a replacement to gasoline.

I have extracted a liter of water in one minute using an air
conditioner.

Electrolysis using a car's battery produces instant hydrogen, which
can be directly directed to the car's engine for combustion.
In fact this is so simple, that a car mechanic could do it very
cheaply. In East Europe a lot of people cheat by installing propaine
tanks in their cars as a cheaper means of gas, as gasoline in Europe
is expensive. A car with a traditional engine could also take
hydrogen, and hydrogen can be very easily extracted using electricity
and electrolysis.

+------------------------+
| |
| Traditional car engine |---+
| | |
+------------------------+ |
| |
| |
+-------------+ |
| + - | |
| produces | |
| electricity | |H
| (battery) | |
+-------------+ |
| \ |
| \ |
+-----------------+ +--------------+
| | | electrolysis |
| air conditioner | | produces |
| produces water |--| hydrogen gas |
| | | from water |
+-----------------+ +--------------+

Upon starting up the car, one might see the battery starting
electrolysis, and instantly hydrogen gas is produced.
Then as the gas moves to the engine, the engine can start up using the
instant generation of hydrogen gas from water, and water from air.
What people don't see, is how effective extracting water from air and
hydrogen from water is.

Free energy ideas are generally dismissed, as so many tried and failed
in general. This concept is zero energy (self sufficient), meaning the
energy power is in the burning of hydrogen, but to extract hydrogen
from the air reaquires less energy, than what this engine produces by
burning hydrogen.

What this means is that hydrogen would not need to be transported as
oil. Hydrogen is extracted in place, by a car, by a device that
produces energy placed near a home, the energy becomes taking it
directly from the air, and by trivial means of extracting hydrogen
from the air and burning it. It means the collapse of the global
economy, as this technology is so simple, that an ordinary car
mechanic could do. It means politics, but it is also important, that
it is not patented away from all people, a preservation and government
control is needed for this technology.

Al Gore is interested in solutions that benefit all people, that
tackles global warming, solutions that also benefit the world. I
believe this is one of the interested solution available for research.



(first water waste from air conditioners, then
electrolysis separates hydrogen from the air

... water ...

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not consider real
inefficiencies.

Ok. Why should we believe till we see it. Why should we see it,
if we don't want to believe it.

The problem is comparing the energy to a car.

I extracted one liter of water using a POWERFUL air conditioner
in one minute, a car has a tiny air conditioner compared to
one that cools a house.

One liter of water in one minute sounds cool.

If this would be gas, one liter of gas can run a car on a highway
for 5 minutes, given the car runs at 120 kilometers an hour
and the car consumes 10 kilometers per liter. (In US terms,
22 miles per gallon or so).

One liter of gas can be used up in 5 minutes, but in one minute,
But in five minutes, I was only able to produce 5 liters of water,
given a good powerful air conditioner.

Now the other problem, is that one needs a 5 times larger gas
tank for LIQUID hydrogen than for oil. It means, that that 5 liters
of water only means one, and it is not liquid hydrogen but water.

So we are not efficient, and the air conditioner for extracting
that amount of water may be far too powerful for a car's battery.

But there is belief, even if this is too complex, and yet trivial.

On Feb 2, 11:19 am, wrote:
On Feb 2, 10:24 am, wrote:





On Feb 2, 8:45 am, "dlzc" wrote:

Dear gb6...:

Off topic in sci.astro. Adding sci.chem

On Feb 2, 7:54 am, wrote:

Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

The 60 percent loss applies only if its electric.

Hydrogen can be used to replace gasolene in ordinary cars. This is
trivial,
but you have to use your brain.

As trivial it means that we all should understand.

You have probably heard of hydrogen combustion engine. There are two
types of hydrogen engines. When oxygen and hydrogen mixes, electricity
is produced. There are busses in Chicago that use this technology, and
the electricity produced runs these busses. Here the 60 percent energy
efficiency is true. Here when oxygen and hydrogen is mixed, a product
aside from electricity is water. This is a beautiful and silent
technology, and relies on the transportation of hydrogen as fuel.

The second, and the most ignored version of a hydrogen based engine,
is hydrogen combustion. Hydrogen is gas that burns and works perfectly
with most traditional car engines.

What I ask as a preservation of technology, is based on my trivial
understanding that hydrogen using electricity can be extracted from
water, and water can be extracted from the air using electricity, as a
waste product of air conditioners.

The possibility is there for an engine that
extracts hydrogen from the air using a car's battery, and uses that
hydrogen as a replacement to gasoline.

I have extracted a liter of water in one minute using an air
conditioner.

Electrolysis using a car's battery produces instant hydrogen, which
can be directly directed to the car's engine for combustion.
In fact this is so simple, that a car mechanic could do it very
cheaply. In East Europe a lot of people cheat by installing propaine
tanks in their cars as a cheaper means of gas, as gasoline in Europe
is expensive. A car with a traditional engine could also take
hydrogen, and hydrogen can be very easily extracted using electricity
and electrolysis.

+------------------------+
| |
| Traditional car engine |---+
| | |
+------------------------+ |
| |
| |
+-------------+ |
| + - | |
| produces | |
| electricity | |H
| (battery) | |
+-------------+ |
| \ |
| \ |
+-----------------+ +--------------+
| | | electrolysis |
| air conditioner | | produces |
| produces water |--| hydrogen gas |
| | | from water |
+-----------------+ +--------------+

Upon starting up the car, one might see the battery starting
electrolysis, and instantly hydrogen gas is produced.
Then as the gas moves to the engine, the engine can start up using the
instant generation of hydrogen gas from water, and water from air.
What people don't see, is how effective extracting water from air and
hydrogen from water is.

Free energy ideas are generally dismissed, as so many tried and failed
in general. This concept is zero energy (self sufficient), meaning the
energy power is in the burning of hydrogen, but to extract hydrogen
from the air reaquires less energy, than what this engine produces by
burning hydrogen.

What this means is that hydrogen would not need to be transported as
oil. Hydrogen is extracted in place, by a car, by a device that
produces energy placed near a home, the energy becomes taking it
directly from the air, and by trivial means of extracting hydrogen
from the air and burning it. It means the collapse of the global
economy, as this technology is so simple, that an ordinary car
mechanic could do. It means politics, but it is also important, that
it is not patented away from all people, a preservation and government
control is needed for this technology.

Al Gore is interested in solutions that benefit all people, that
tackles global warming, solutions that also benefit the world. I
believe this is one of the interested solution available for research.

(first water waste from air conditioners, then
electrolysis separates hydrogen from the air

... water ...

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not consider real
inefficiencies.

Ok. Why should we believe till we see it. Why should we see it,
if we don't want to believe it.

The problem is comparing the energy to a car.

I extracted one liter of water using a POWERFUL air conditioner
in one minute, a car has a tiny air conditioner compared to
one that cools a house.

One liter of water in one minute sounds cool.

If this would be gas, one liter of gas can run a car on a highway
for 5 minutes, given the car runs at 120 kilometers an hour
and the car consumes 10 kilometers per liter. (In US terms,
22 miles per gallon or so).

One liter of gas can be used up in 5 minutes, but in one minute,
But in five minutes, I was only able to produce 5 liters of water,
given a good powerful air conditioner.

Now the other problem, is that one needs a 5 times larger gas
tank for LIQUID hydrogen than for oil. It means, that that 5 liters
of water only means one, and it is not liquid hydrogen but water.

So we are not efficient, and the air conditioner for extracting
that amount of water may be far too powerful for a car's battery.

But there is belief, even if this is too complex, and yet trivial.

No. See I fooled myself. The five times greater tank applies
if hydrogen is used to produce electricity by mixing with oxygen.

We are talking about burning hydrogen, which is a lot more
powerful than electricity.

Keep in mind.

On Feb 2, 11:32 am, wrote:
On Feb 2, 11:19 am, wrote:





On Feb 2, 10:24 am, wrote:

On Feb 2, 8:45 am, "dlzc" wrote:

Dear gb6...:

Off topic in sci.astro. Adding sci.chem

On Feb 2, 7:54 am, wrote:

Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

The 60 percent loss applies only if its electric.

Hydrogen can be used to replace gasolene in ordinary cars. This is
trivial,
but you have to use your brain.

As trivial it means that we all should understand.

You have probably heard of hydrogen combustion engine. There are two
types of hydrogen engines. When oxygen and hydrogen mixes, electricity
is produced. There are busses in Chicago that use this technology, and
the electricity produced runs these busses. Here the 60 percent energy
efficiency is true. Here when oxygen and hydrogen is mixed, a product
aside from electricity is water. This is a beautiful and silent
technology, and relies on the transportation of hydrogen as fuel.

The second, and the most ignored version of a hydrogen based engine,
is hydrogen combustion. Hydrogen is gas that burns and works perfectly
with most traditional car engines.

What I ask as a preservation of technology, is based on my trivial
understanding that hydrogen using electricity can be extracted from
water, and water can be extracted from the air using electricity, as a
waste product of air conditioners.

The possibility is there for an engine that
extracts hydrogen from the air using a car's battery, and uses that
hydrogen as a replacement to gasoline.

I have extracted a liter of water in one minute using an air
conditioner.

Electrolysis using a car's battery produces instant hydrogen, which
can be directly directed to the car's engine for combustion.
In fact this is so simple, that a car mechanic could do it very
cheaply. In East Europe a lot of people cheat by installing propaine
tanks in their cars as a cheaper means of gas, as gasoline in Europe
is expensive. A car with a traditional engine could also take
hydrogen, and hydrogen can be very easily extracted using electricity
and electrolysis.

+------------------------+
| |
| Traditional car engine |---+
| | |
+------------------------+ |
| |
| |
+-------------+ |
| + - | |
| produces | |
| electricity | |H
| (battery) | |
+-------------+ |
| \ |
| \ |
+-----------------+ +--------------+
| | | electrolysis |
| air conditioner | | produces |
| produces water |--| hydrogen gas |
| | | from water |
+-----------------+ +--------------+

Upon starting up the car, one might see the battery starting
electrolysis, and instantly hydrogen gas is produced.
Then as the gas moves to the engine, the engine can start up using the
instant generation of hydrogen gas from water, and water from air.
What people don't see, is how effective extracting water from air and
hydrogen from water is.

Free energy ideas are generally dismissed, as so many tried and failed
in general. This concept is zero energy (self sufficient), meaning the
energy power is in the burning of hydrogen, but to extract hydrogen
from the air reaquires less energy, than what this engine produces by
burning hydrogen.

What this means is that hydrogen would not need to be transported as
oil. Hydrogen is extracted in place, by a car, by a device that
produces energy placed near a home, the energy becomes taking it
directly from the air, and by trivial means of extracting hydrogen
from the air and burning it. It means the collapse of the global
economy, as this technology is so simple, that an ordinary car
mechanic could do. It means politics, but it is also important, that
it is not patented away from all people, a preservation and government
control is needed for this technology.

Al Gore is interested in solutions that benefit all people, that
tackles global warming, solutions that also benefit the world. I
believe this is one of the interested solution available for research.

(first water waste from air conditioners, then
electrolysis separates hydrogen from the air

... water ...

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not consider real
inefficiencies.

Ok. Why should we believe till we see it. Why should we see it,
if we don't want to believe it.

The problem is comparing the energy to a car.

I extracted one liter of water using a POWERFUL air conditioner
in one minute, a car has a tiny air conditioner compared to
one that cools a house.

One liter of water in one minute sounds cool.

If this would be gas, one liter of gas can run a car on a highway
for 5 minutes, given the car runs at 120 kilometers an hour
and the car consumes 10 kilometers per liter. (In US terms,
22 miles per gallon or so).

One liter of gas can be used up in 5 minutes, but in one minute,
But in five minutes, I was only able to produce 5 liters of water,
given a good powerful air conditioner.

Now the other problem, is that one needs a 5 times larger gas
tank for LIQUID hydrogen than for oil. It means, that that 5 liters
of water only means one, and it is not liquid hydrogen but water.

So we are not efficient, and the air conditioner for extracting
that amount of water may be far too powerful for a car's battery.

But there is belief, even if this is too complex, and yet trivial.

No. See I fooled myself. The five times greater tank applies
if hydrogen is used to produce electricity by mixing with oxygen.

We are talking about burning hydrogen, which is a lot more
powerful than electricity.

Keep in mind.

In fact the power, if hydrogen is burned, is equal to the power
of gasoline.

When you say 60 percent efficient, it applies to the Chicago bus,
whose gas tank is 5 times greater, and uses hydrogen to produce
electricity. That hydrogen was as well produced by using electricity.

On Feb 2, 11:34 am, wrote:
On Feb 2, 11:32 am, wrote:





On Feb 2, 11:19 am, wrote:

On Feb 2, 10:24 am, wrote:

On Feb 2, 8:45 am, "dlzc" wrote:

Dear gb6...:

Off topic in sci.astro. Adding sci.chem

On Feb 2, 7:54 am, wrote:

Zero energy is available.

Hydrogen can be extracted out of air using electrolysis
using the car's battery

About 60% loss of applied energy doing this.

The 60 percent loss applies only if its electric.

Hydrogen can be used to replace gasolene in ordinary cars. This is
trivial,
but you have to use your brain.

As trivial it means that we all should understand.

You have probably heard of hydrogen combustion engine. There are two
types of hydrogen engines. When oxygen and hydrogen mixes, electricity
is produced. There are busses in Chicago that use this technology, and
the electricity produced runs these busses. Here the 60 percent energy
efficiency is true. Here when oxygen and hydrogen is mixed, a product
aside from electricity is water. This is a beautiful and silent
technology, and relies on the transportation of hydrogen as fuel.

The second, and the most ignored version of a hydrogen based engine,
is hydrogen combustion. Hydrogen is gas that burns and works perfectly
with most traditional car engines.

What I ask as a preservation of technology, is based on my trivial
understanding that hydrogen using electricity can be extracted from
water, and water can be extracted from the air using electricity, as a
waste product of air conditioners.

The possibility is there for an engine that
extracts hydrogen from the air using a car's battery, and uses that
hydrogen as a replacement to gasoline.

I have extracted a liter of water in one minute using an air
conditioner.

Electrolysis using a car's battery produces instant hydrogen, which
can be directly directed to the car's engine for combustion.
In fact this is so simple, that a car mechanic could do it very
cheaply. In East Europe a lot of people cheat by installing propaine
tanks in their cars as a cheaper means of gas, as gasoline in Europe
is expensive. A car with a traditional engine could also take
hydrogen, and hydrogen can be very easily extracted using electricity
and electrolysis.

+------------------------+
| |
| Traditional car engine |---+
| | |
+------------------------+ |
| |
| |
+-------------+ |
| + - | |
| produces | |
| electricity | |H
| (battery) | |
+-------------+ |
| \ |
| \ |
+-----------------+ +--------------+
| | | electrolysis |
| air conditioner | | produces |
| produces water |--| hydrogen gas |
| | | from water |
+-----------------+ +--------------+

Upon starting up the car, one might see the battery starting
electrolysis, and instantly hydrogen gas is produced.
Then as the gas moves to the engine, the engine can start up using the
instant generation of hydrogen gas from water, and water from air.
What people don't see, is how effective extracting water from air and
hydrogen from water is.

Free energy ideas are generally dismissed, as so many tried and failed
in general. This concept is zero energy (self sufficient), meaning the
energy power is in the burning of hydrogen, but to extract hydrogen
from the air reaquires less energy, than what this engine produces by
burning hydrogen.

What this means is that hydrogen would not need to be transported as
oil. Hydrogen is extracted in place, by a car, by a device that
produces energy placed near a home, the energy becomes taking it
directly from the air, and by trivial means of extracting hydrogen
from the air and burning it. It means the collapse of the global
economy, as this technology is so simple, that an ordinary car
mechanic could do. It means politics, but it is also important, that
it is not patented away from all people, a preservation and government
control is needed for this technology.

Al Gore is interested in solutions that benefit all people, that
tackles global warming, solutions that also benefit the world. I
believe this is one of the interested solution available for research.

(first water waste from air conditioners, then
electrolysis separates hydrogen from the air

... water ...

and sends the hydrogen gas directly to the engine.)

Grinds to a halt really quick. Because you do not consider real
inefficiencies.

Ok. Why should we believe till we see it. Why should we see it,
if we don't want to believe it.

The problem is comparing the energy to a car.

I extracted one liter of water using a POWERFUL air conditioner
in one minute, a car has a tiny air conditioner compared to
one that cools a house.

One liter of water in one minute sounds cool.

If this would be gas, one liter of gas can run a car on a highway
for 5 minutes, given the car runs at 120 kilometers an hour
and the car consumes 10 kilometers per liter. (In US terms,
22 miles per gallon or so).

One liter of gas can be used up in 5 minutes, but in one minute,
But in five minutes, I was only able to produce 5 liters of water,
given a good powerful air conditioner.

Now the other problem, is that one needs a 5 times larger gas
tank for LIQUID hydrogen than for oil. It means, that that 5 liters
of water only means one, and it is not liquid hydrogen but water.

So we are not efficient, and the air conditioner for extracting
that amount of water may be far too powerful for a car's battery.

But there is belief, even if this is too complex, and yet trivial.

No. See I fooled myself. The five times greater tank applies
if hydrogen is used to produce electricity by mixing with oxygen.

We are talking about burning hydrogen, which is a lot more
powerful than electricity.

Keep in mind.

In fact the power, if hydrogen is burned, is equal to the power
of gasoline.

When you say 60 percent efficient, it applies to the Chicago bus,
whose gas tank is 5 times greater, and uses hydrogen to produce
electricity. That hydrogen was as well produced by using electricity.

Sorry for thinking alone here. So the only question is, how much
energy is needed in extracting a full tank of hydrogen. Hypothetically
we are in Japan, and we as rocket scientists exchange emails at
Fuji Heavy Industries, Inc.