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On Fri, 09 May 2008 20:19:29 -0400, Alain Fournier
wrote:

Also, your claim that no wind across the entire state is unlikely
is not good. Weather patterns are rather large entities.

Large like a tornado you mean. I used to fly and I don't remember any
maps showing no wind over a large area. I flew in lots of different
tailwheel type planes and they get unruly in a cross wind. So I was
paying attention to the wind at all times, you look at maps. You look
for clues like clothslines or smoke, just in case the mill quits. As I
once said, Iowa is a windy place.

Casady

Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 09 May 2008 20:19:29 -0400, Alain Fournier
wrote:

Also, your claim that no wind across the entire state is unlikely
is not good. Weather patterns are rather large entities.

Large like a tornado you mean. I used to fly and I don't remember any
maps showing no wind over a large area. I flew in lots of different

You didn't fly at 100 ft.

tailwheel type planes and they get unruly in a cross wind. So I was
paying attention to the wind at all times, you look at maps. You look
for clues like clothslines or smoke, just in case the mill quits. As I
once said, Iowa is a windy place.


Great then put up wind mills and the panic is over, sell the power and
we need no tax to cure Global Warming.

Casady

Poetic Justice wrote:
:
:Great then put up wind mills and the panic is over, sell the power and
:we need no tax to cure Global Warming.
:

And what's the result of taking all that energy out of the weather
systems?

Or is this another "let's solve it without understanding what we're
doing" scheme?

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

Call Me Ishmael wrote:

Iowa is a leader at that. 5% of the juice in Iowa is from wind. Unlike
solar, it works at night.

What do they do on a summer day when there isn't a breath of air or
breeze?



On a peak load summers day with all the air conditioners running....

So you have to maintain two systems.... how much carbon does it take
to care for two seperate power systems than just one ?

Since they are making 5% via wind, that implies they are making 95% some
other way.
I think the 5% is a average over a year's time.... on still days 0% is
coming from wind, on very windy days more than 5% of it is being made
via wind, and it averages out at 5%.
States sell electric power to each other, so if the wind farms out
turning out much power, it can come into the state from other sources.
My state of North Dakota is starting to build more wind farms - as we
are the windiest state in the nation and have vast areas of basically
empty and flat farmland that the wind generators can be built on.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:


Call Me Ishmael wrote:

Iowa is a leader at that. 5% of the juice in Iowa is from wind. Unlike
solar, it works at night.

What do they do on a summer day when there isn't a breath of air or
breeze?



On a peak load summers day with all the air conditioners running....

So you have to maintain two systems.... how much carbon does it take
to care for two seperate power systems than just one ?

Since they are making 5% via wind, that implies they are making 95% some
other way.
I think the 5% is a average over a year's time.... on still days 0% is
coming from wind, on very windy days more than 5% of it is being made
via wind, and it averages out at 5%.
States sell electric power to each other, so if the wind farms out
turning out much power, it can come into the state from other sources.
My state of North Dakota is starting to build more wind farms - as we
are the windiest state in the nation and have vast areas of basically
empty and flat farmland that the wind generators can be built on.

Pat

Is the land *dual use* wind generator/food crops? Or does the wind farm
just farm wind?

More land out of truck farming use would raise food costs even more than
now with Alcohol grains pushing out the Food.

Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 09 May 2008 20:19:29 -0400, Alain Fournier
wrote:


Also, your claim that no wind across the entire state is unlikely
is not good. Weather patterns are rather large entities.


Large like a tornado you mean. I used to fly and I don't remember any
maps showing no wind over a large area. I flew in lots of different
tailwheel type planes and they get unruly in a cross wind. So I was
paying attention to the wind at all times, you look at maps. You look
for clues like clothslines or smoke, just in case the mill quits. As I
once said, Iowa is a windy place.

I don't know much about Iowa, I believe you that it is windy.
My point is that, that one time where it won't be windy at the
windiest point in Iowa, then it is likely that it won't be
windy across the entire state. When you have a windless day
it usually isn't on a small patch of land. So you do have to
plan for those days where the wind falls and not assume that
windmills 10 km further will pickup the slack. You can't even
assume that wind mills 1000 km further will pick the slack.
They might but you can't count on it because weather patterns
are rather large entities so a windless day can be so for
a large area.


Alain Fournier

Fred J. McCall wrote:

Poetic Justice wrote:
:
:Great then put up wind mills and the panic is over, sell the power and
:we need no tax to cure Global Warming.
:

And what's the result of taking all that energy out of the weather
systems?

Negligible.

Or is this another "let's solve it without understanding what we're
doing" scheme?

A windmill has approximately the same effect on weather patterns as
a large sequoia tree. We already have many such trees and they don't
seam to be a big problem. So we know that having many windmills
won't be a serious problem for weather patterns.


Alain Fournier

On Sat, 10 May 2008 09:06:47 -0400, Poetic Justice
wrote:

Is the land *dual use* wind generator/food crops? Or does the wind farm
just farm wind?

The area occupied by the tower is tiny compared to even a small farm.
It would interfere somewhat with growing grain, no effect on grazing.

More land out of truck farming use would raise food costs even more than
now with Alcohol grains pushing out the Food.

There is no truck farming [to speak of] in the Dakotas, and not much
in Iowa.

Casady

Alain Fournier wrote:
Fred J. McCall wrote:

Poetic Justice wrote:
:
:Great then put up wind mills and the panic is over, sell the power
and :we need no tax to cure Global Warming.
:

And what's the result of taking all that energy out of the weather
systems?

Negligible.

Or is this another "let's solve it without understanding what we're
doing" scheme?

A windmill has approximately the same effect on weather patterns as
a large sequoia tree. We already have many such trees and they don't
seam to be a big problem. So we know that having many windmills
won't be a serious problem for weather patterns.


Alain Fournier

But will they disrupt the geese on their migration? Will Polar Bears
sense the continuous rotation a 1000 miles away and be lost on pack ice
to drown because of the distraction? Will whales hear the 60 cycle hum
and try to swim onto land to save what they think is an injured fellow
whale?

We have to do EPA and DNR, FCC, FAA... studies and this might take
decades to complete many of the studies. The fence at the Mexican Border
was stopped because a lizard was possibly impacted.....

It may take as long to get a wind mill properly planned and built as it
takes to build a Nuclear plant.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:53:17 -0400, in a place far, far away, Alain
Fournier made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

Fred J. McCall wrote:

Poetic Justice wrote:
:
:Great then put up wind mills and the panic is over, sell the power and
:we need no tax to cure Global Warming.
:

And what's the result of taking all that energy out of the weather
systems?

Negligible.

Or is this another "let's solve it without understanding what we're
doing" scheme?

A windmill has approximately the same effect on weather patterns as
a large sequoia tree. We already have many such trees and they don't
seam to be a big problem.

We don't have that many sequoias. Just in California, and if by
"large" you mean giant, there are actually very few. But how do you
know they don't cause problems? You have no idea how much better
things might be without them, because we haven't done the experiment.

So we know that having many windmills
won't be a serious problem for weather patterns.

Sorry, argument fails so far.