Question to Tom Back (an apo designer)

I also noted one interesting sign of the SV's "fort" defenders - they
can't answer constructively, thay rather use words like "ass",
"asshole" etc.
As always. When no factual arguments, these deceptive peoples jump to
personal attack with quite specific list of words. ;-)

I personally think, that peoples, who constantly use such words,
mostly
well correspond to them theirselves.


V.D.


And you STILL haven't answered the question posed in the other thread.
You stated that you know from whom and where SV sources their objectives.
Enlighten us.

Hi Nick,
I see that your mind belongs to SV. Someday you'll pull away and see
the silliness of your allegience.

Al M


"Nick Zivanovic" wrote in message ...
"ValeryD" wrote in message
om...
(Chris.B) wrote in message
. com...
The Central Scrutinizer wrote in message
...
How do you see anything with your head
up your ass?

Yet another cheap (anonymous) shot. Your mother would be proud.
Thassmaboy!

Get a life or get some nerve! And do sign your trivial posts so we
know whch particular idiot is the knee-jerk jerk. BTW: Unless I'm
mistaken, what you are groping for is ARSE! Not the innocent beast
of burden. But one never knows in cases like yours. g

Chris.B


I also noted one interesting sign of the SV's "fort" defenders - they
can't answer constructively, thay rather use words like "ass",
"asshole" etc.
As always. When no factual arguments, these deceptive peoples jump to
personal attack with quite specific list of words. ;-)

I personally think, that peoples, who constantly use such words,
mostly
well correspond to them theirselves.


V.D.


Bwahhhhbwahhhbwahh. BWAHBWAHBWAHBWAH! Valery, you are a FUNNY guy! I normally
don't respond to you anymore, but that was so funny I just couldn't stay away,
so here it is: Pot, Kettle, Black.

Oh, and I know what "pizdoon" means too. YOU'RE A FUNNY GUY!!!!

nz

Hi Nick,
I see that your mind belongs to SV. Someday you'll pull away and see
the silliness of your allegience.

Al M


"Nick Zivanovic" wrote in message ...
"ValeryD" wrote in message
om...
(Chris.B) wrote in message
. com...
The Central Scrutinizer wrote in message
...
How do you see anything with your head
up your ass?

Yet another cheap (anonymous) shot. Your mother would be proud.
Thassmaboy!

Get a life or get some nerve! And do sign your trivial posts so we
know whch particular idiot is the knee-jerk jerk. BTW: Unless I'm
mistaken, what you are groping for is ARSE! Not the innocent beast
of burden. But one never knows in cases like yours. g

Chris.B


I also noted one interesting sign of the SV's "fort" defenders - they
can't answer constructively, thay rather use words like "ass",
"asshole" etc.
As always. When no factual arguments, these deceptive peoples jump to
personal attack with quite specific list of words. ;-)

I personally think, that peoples, who constantly use such words,
mostly
well correspond to them theirselves.


V.D.


Bwahhhhbwahhhbwahh. BWAHBWAHBWAHBWAH! Valery, you are a FUNNY guy! I normally
don't respond to you anymore, but that was so funny I just couldn't stay away,
so here it is: Pot, Kettle, Black.

Oh, and I know what "pizdoon" means too. YOU'RE A FUNNY GUY!!!!

nz

(TMBack) wrote in message ...
Chris.B wrote,

Bwahhhhbwahhhbwahh. BWAHBWAHBWAHBWAH!
Valery, you are a FUNNY guy! I normally don't respond
to you anymore, but that was so funny I just couldn't
stay away, so here it is: Pot, Kettle, Black.

Pot, Kettle, Black - nothing could be closer to the truth.

I hate to disappoint the s.a.a. readers, but if you are
expecting me to respond to Valery anymore, I have
bad new for you -- I ain't going to do it. I'll let him play
with himself. :-)

Thomas Back

Do pay attention at the back Thomas! I never said any such thing!

If only we could remove the silliness surrounding these threads it
would be interesting to have straight responses to straight questions.
I sincerely believe that we might learn something here beyond the
usual personal behavioural patterns.

"An achromat is an achromat". (Unless claimed otherwise). An APO is a
bit better, a lot better or best(unless claimed otherwise). Surely a
serious attempt at an honest hierarchical listing is long overdue.
Otherwise is an SV achromat or Meade APO product description any more
honest than a 786x Tasco? I had (forlornly) hoped that Valery & Thomas
could answer these questions for us. Since they set themselves up as
the world's most vociferous refractor optics experts.
But no, we had to have the usual flag waving, stars & stripes bigots,
the SV fanatics self-flaggelating & genuflecting towards Maris, while
dressed in sack cloth & ashes. While just about everybody else from
"rent a crowd" jostled for their moment of instant fame. Frankly I'm
very disappointed! I hoped for some scientific truth and enlightenment
myself. Not the same old horse manure.

Chris.B

TB Quote: "I'm not speaking to him any more."
TB Quote: "He can play with himself"
Sorry people: School's out! No more lessons today!

(TMBack) wrote in message ...
Chris.B wrote,

Bwahhhhbwahhhbwahh. BWAHBWAHBWAHBWAH!
Valery, you are a FUNNY guy! I normally don't respond
to you anymore, but that was so funny I just couldn't
stay away, so here it is: Pot, Kettle, Black.

Pot, Kettle, Black - nothing could be closer to the truth.

I hate to disappoint the s.a.a. readers, but if you are
expecting me to respond to Valery anymore, I have
bad new for you -- I ain't going to do it. I'll let him play
with himself. :-)

Thomas Back

Do pay attention at the back Thomas! I never said any such thing!

If only we could remove the silliness surrounding these threads it
would be interesting to have straight responses to straight questions.
I sincerely believe that we might learn something here beyond the
usual personal behavioural patterns.

"An achromat is an achromat". (Unless claimed otherwise). An APO is a
bit better, a lot better or best(unless claimed otherwise). Surely a
serious attempt at an honest hierarchical listing is long overdue.
Otherwise is an SV achromat or Meade APO product description any more
honest than a 786x Tasco? I had (forlornly) hoped that Valery & Thomas
could answer these questions for us. Since they set themselves up as
the world's most vociferous refractor optics experts.
But no, we had to have the usual flag waving, stars & stripes bigots,
the SV fanatics self-flaggelating & genuflecting towards Maris, while
dressed in sack cloth & ashes. While just about everybody else from
"rent a crowd" jostled for their moment of instant fame. Frankly I'm
very disappointed! I hoped for some scientific truth and enlightenment
myself. Not the same old horse manure.

Chris.B

TB Quote: "I'm not speaking to him any more."
TB Quote: "He can play with himself"
Sorry people: School's out! No more lessons today!

If only we could remove the silliness surrounding these
threads it would be interesting to have straight
responses to straight questions. I sincerely believe that
we might learn something here beyond the usual
personal behavioural patterns.

"An achromat is an achromat". (Unless claimed
otherwise). An APO is a bit better, a lot better or
best(unless claimed otherwise). Surely a serious
attempt at an honest hierarchical listing is long
overdue. Otherwise is an SV achromat or Meade APO
product description any more honest than a 786x
Tasco? I had (forlornly) hoped that Valery & Thomas
could answer these questions for us. Since they set
themselves up as the world's most vociferous refractor
optics experts. But no, we had to have the usual flag
waving, stars & stripes bigots, the SV fanatics
self-flaggelating & genuflecting towards Maris, while
dressed in sack cloth & ashes. While just about
everybody else from "rent a crowd" jostled for their
moment of instant fame. Frankly I'm very disappointed!
I hoped for some scientific truth and enlightenment
myself. Not the same old horse manure.

Chris.B

TB Quote: "I'm not speaking to him any more."
TB Quote: "He can play with himself"
Sorry people: School's out! No more lessons today!

Chris,

I've spent the better part of 12 years on s.a.a, helping
people, explaining optical concepts, and giving detailed
information about all types of telescopes, the emphasis
on refractors, naturally. Now we have Valery D., who
no one seems to question his answers. Valery has said
himself, that he is always right. When you try and have
a reasonable discussion with a person like that, it is a
exercise in futility.

Valery then jumps on anything I have to say on any
subject, gives outright lies about myself, my company
and my products, because it is one big game for him.
Do you think this picture is right?

Well, I'm too busy running a company to play games on
s.a.a. Before you start quoting me in a negative light,
you should do a Google search on all Valery's foul, and
meaningless posts.

If after all that, you, or anyone else, still thinks I should
put up with such a person, I feel sorry for your lack of
understanding.

Thomas Back

If only we could remove the silliness surrounding these
threads it would be interesting to have straight
responses to straight questions. I sincerely believe that
we might learn something here beyond the usual
personal behavioural patterns.

"An achromat is an achromat". (Unless claimed
otherwise). An APO is a bit better, a lot better or
best(unless claimed otherwise). Surely a serious
attempt at an honest hierarchical listing is long
overdue. Otherwise is an SV achromat or Meade APO
product description any more honest than a 786x
Tasco? I had (forlornly) hoped that Valery & Thomas
could answer these questions for us. Since they set
themselves up as the world's most vociferous refractor
optics experts. But no, we had to have the usual flag
waving, stars & stripes bigots, the SV fanatics
self-flaggelating & genuflecting towards Maris, while
dressed in sack cloth & ashes. While just about
everybody else from "rent a crowd" jostled for their
moment of instant fame. Frankly I'm very disappointed!
I hoped for some scientific truth and enlightenment
myself. Not the same old horse manure.

Chris.B

TB Quote: "I'm not speaking to him any more."
TB Quote: "He can play with himself"
Sorry people: School's out! No more lessons today!

Chris,

I've spent the better part of 12 years on s.a.a, helping
people, explaining optical concepts, and giving detailed
information about all types of telescopes, the emphasis
on refractors, naturally. Now we have Valery D., who
no one seems to question his answers. Valery has said
himself, that he is always right. When you try and have
a reasonable discussion with a person like that, it is a
exercise in futility.

Valery then jumps on anything I have to say on any
subject, gives outright lies about myself, my company
and my products, because it is one big game for him.
Do you think this picture is right?

Well, I'm too busy running a company to play games on
s.a.a. Before you start quoting me in a negative light,
you should do a Google search on all Valery's foul, and
meaningless posts.

If after all that, you, or anyone else, still thinks I should
put up with such a person, I feel sorry for your lack of
understanding.

Thomas Back

ValeryD wrote:

"Richard F.L.R. Snashall" wrote in message ...





Rick,

Excellent visual APO.
It can be somewhat improved for off-focus testing enthusiasts.
For planetary observers (in focus!) it does not require
any improvement. It has maximal image contrast within visual
spectrum.


V.D.


In the absence of being able to get a discussion going, I'm
wondering, then, if you would answer a couple of nagging
questions I have about this.

This scope seems weak in three attributes:

a) Color
The paraxial color error (F-C) is about 282 microns,
or about 1/4800 of the focal length. I keep reading
about the correction needing to be 1/8000 to 1/16000.
b) Spherochromatism
This lens is only corrected for spherical aberration
(third order) at about 520 nm. Fortunately, the loss
on either side of this seems to largely compensate for
the residual color in the nearer colors. I keep reading
that spherical aberration (and coma, but coma seems to
be small here) need to be corrected at at least two
wavelengths.
c) Nulls
Perhaps because of b), there is really only one "null".
I keep reading that three nulls are required.

Am I mis-interpreting something here?

Thanks in advance.

Rick S.

ValeryD wrote:

"Richard F.L.R. Snashall" wrote in message ...





Rick,

Excellent visual APO.
It can be somewhat improved for off-focus testing enthusiasts.
For planetary observers (in focus!) it does not require
any improvement. It has maximal image contrast within visual
spectrum.


V.D.


In the absence of being able to get a discussion going, I'm
wondering, then, if you would answer a couple of nagging
questions I have about this.

This scope seems weak in three attributes:

a) Color
The paraxial color error (F-C) is about 282 microns,
or about 1/4800 of the focal length. I keep reading
about the correction needing to be 1/8000 to 1/16000.
b) Spherochromatism
This lens is only corrected for spherical aberration
(third order) at about 520 nm. Fortunately, the loss
on either side of this seems to largely compensate for
the residual color in the nearer colors. I keep reading
that spherical aberration (and coma, but coma seems to
be small here) need to be corrected at at least two
wavelengths.
c) Nulls
Perhaps because of b), there is really only one "null".
I keep reading that three nulls are required.

Am I mis-interpreting something here?

Thanks in advance.

Rick S.

Chris.B wrote:

snip
price is well beyond what I (and many others) can afford. Particularly
outside the heavily cushioned USA sales area with its miraculously low
prices in comparison with those in Europe.

There's nothing "miraculous" about it. Prices are lower here because
(historically) our currency has been very stable, and taxes are very
very low compared to Europe. If you want free education, healthcare,
retirement, etc, somebody has to pay for it.

-Matt
--
Remove 'TINLC' to reply.