Star Distances

Floyd??? Hey, he's in our Club too.

Do you ever meet on Fridays?

On 6 Jul 2006 08:09:55 -0700, "Hurt"
Gave us:


NO, ASSWIPE, there is no grand conspiracy to keep scientific facts
from the masses.

Are there still people who actually believe that.


Your entire position in this thread was that. Nice attempt at a
hand-off.

This guy is a troll, folks.

On 6 Jul 2006 09:43:43 -0700, "Hurt"
Gave us:


Floyd??? Hey, he's in our Club too.

Do you ever meet on Fridays?

We could tell the answer to that, but then we'd have to kill you.

keep scientific nightbat wrote

Hurt wrote:

NO, ASSWIPE, there is no grand conspiracy to facts
from the masses.


Are there still people who actually believe that.


nightbat

Science isn't about believe systems and hey clueless ever hear
about National Security? The profound Earth Science Team Officers are
duty bound to pursue the course of truth, justice, and the old American
way. If a so called fact is scientific based it is open to falsification
silly.

ponder on,
the nightbat

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:46:02 -0400, nightbat
Gave us:

keep scientific nightbat wrote

Hurt wrote:

NO, ASSWIPE, there is no grand conspiracy to facts
from the masses.


Are there still people who actually believe that.


nightbat

Science isn't about believe systems and hey clueless ever hear
about National Security? The profound Earth Science Team Officers are
duty bound to pursue the course of truth, justice, and the old American
way. If a so called fact is scientific based it is open to falsification
silly.


You just stated a lie, so I guess you'r right! (let's see you get
out of this one) ;-]

Hurt wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


What "tidal forces"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_acceleration

Good point and good question. This gets a little complicated, at least
for me. I guess tidal friction and the energy exchange between the
Earth and the Moon as all that water sloshes around. I guess it would
be easier to treat them as a system since both would be getting
accelerated equally by the "DarkStar".

Yes, the barycentre of the Earth-Moon system orbits
the Sun so that is clearer. Laser ranging gives us
highly accurate relative measurements of the two.
Your "DarkStar" would affect both the Earth-Moon
system and the Sun itself.

However, how would "all that water sloshes around"
affect the orbits of Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune?

However now we get to angular
momentum, both of the entire Earth-Moon system and of each body.

Four to consider, that of the system around the Sun,
of the Moon around the Earth and the rotational
momentum of each, but none would have any effect
on the other planets.

Since
we're moving at a pretty good velocity around the Sun wouldn't an
accelerating force, say "downward", tend to gyrate us.

It would precess the poles, but that happens in about
25000 years anyway because the Earth isn't a pefect
sphere due to its rotation so the gravity of the Sun
causes precession.

In fact,
changes in Chandler's Wobble might be a good indicator that we are
being accelerated.

No, any "DarkStar" influence would be much less than
the effect of the Sun.

And it seems like a much better explanation for
"global warming". Check out this web site (MUST READ):

http://www.michaelmandeville.com/pol...relations2.htm

Garbage. For example the apparent increase in earthquakes
is because detctors became more sensisytive and more are
in use. If you filter only those large enough to be measured
throughout the period, there s no increasing trend. Details
are on the US survey site somewhere but this is a well-known
'urban legend'.

These eight graphs directly correlate and demonstrate that most major
tectonic activity, including earthquakes, volcanism, El Nino,

Yes, pretty pictures with no statistical analysis, a
typical wothless crank site.

snip

It may be small but integrate over a couple of
centuries of reasonable records of planetary
motions and it mounts up, and since it is
directly added to everything else, it can't be
masked.

Oh, centuries. But if it were an approaching body, being that the
gravitational force operates as an inverse square, the latest records
would be the most pronounced.

Having established the orbits over centuries of
observation, modern very accurate measurements
would easily detect a deviation at the level of the
anomaly. It isn't there so whatever the cause, it only
affects the craft.

George

nightbat wrote

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:46:02 -0400, nightbat
Gave us:


keep scientific nightbat wrote

Hurt wrote:


NO, ASSWIPE, there is no grand conspiracy to facts

from the masses.


Are there still people who actually believe that.


nightbat

Science isn't about believe systems and hey clueless ever hear
about National Security? The profound Earth Science Team Officers are
duty bound to pursue the course of truth, justice, and the old American
way. If a so called fact is scientific based it is open to falsification
silly.


Roy
You just stated a lie, so I guess you'r right! (let's see you get
out of this one) ;-]

nightbat

Easy, nothing in science is written in stone waiting for the
next believable proof to overturn or clarify the next. You can't lie in
true science only give it your best guesstification. If enough theory or
math proof accept it you just might even get a Nobel. Just because it
fits does that make it right, Officer Bert thinks so.

ponder on,
the nightbat

nightbat wrote:

nightbat wrote

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:46:02 -0400, nightbat
Gave us:


keep scientific nightbat wrote

Hurt wrote:


NO, ASSWIPE, there is no grand conspiracy to facts

from the masses.


Are there still people who actually believe that.


nightbat

Science isn't about believe systems and hey clueless ever hear
about National Security? The profound Earth Science Team Officers are
duty bound to pursue the course of truth, justice, and the old American
way. If a so called fact is scientific based it is open to falsification
silly.


Roy
You just stated a lie, so I guess you'r right! (let's see you get
out of this one) ;-]

nightbat

Easy, nothing in science is written in stone waiting for the
next believable proof to overturn or clarify the next. You can't lie in
true science only give it your best guesstification. If enough theory or
math proof accept it you just might even get a Nobel. Just because it
fits does that make it right, Officer Bert thinks so.

ponder on,
the nightbat

frootbat, meet Numby Genius.

Numby Genius, meet frootbat.

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as designated by Brad Guth

"And without accurate measuring techniques, how can they even
*call* quantum theory a "scientific" one? How can it possibly
be referred to as a "fundamental branch of physics"?"
-- Painsnuh the Lamer

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their own, and the races are related (brown)."
-- "Honest" John pontificates on racial purity

"Significant new ideas have rarely come from the ranks of
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-- Double-A on technology development

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:03:42 -0400, nightbat
Gave us:

nightbat wrote

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:46:02 -0400, nightbat
Gave us:


keep scientific nightbat wrote

Hurt wrote:


NO, ASSWIPE, there is no grand conspiracy to facts

from the masses.


Are there still people who actually believe that.


nightbat

Science isn't about believe systems and hey clueless ever hear
about National Security? The profound Earth Science Team Officers are
duty bound to pursue the course of truth, justice, and the old American
way. If a so called fact is scientific based it is open to falsification
silly.


Roy
You just stated a lie, so I guess you'r right! (let's see you get
out of this one) ;-]

nightbat

Easy, nothing in science is written in stone waiting for the
next believable proof to overturn or clarify the next. You can't lie in
true science only give it your best guesstification. If enough theory or
math proof accept it you just might even get a Nobel. Just because it
fits does that make it right, Officer Bert thinks so.

ponder on,
the nightbat

You missed the joke completely.

"Hurt" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes, the barycentre of the Earth-Moon system orbits
the Sun so that is clearer. Laser ranging gives us
highly accurate relative measurements of the two.

Yes, the Apollo missions left laser reflectors and seismometers.

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclips...olloLaser.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_L...ing_Experiment
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...yisfalling.htm
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...moonquakes.htm

I've briefly looked for recent lunar seismic data, but no luck.

It is not gelogically active.

Your "DarkStar" would affect both the Earth-Moon
system and the Sun itself.

And the rest of the planets. Everything affects everything else. The
question is, what exactly, besides [an attempt at] linear acceleration,
would those effects be.

Well this is why I asked what you specifically
meant by "tidal". The force on the Sun won't be
exactly the same as that on a planet due to the
different distances from your star, but that is
what you should calculate.

However, how would "all that water sloshes around"
affect the orbits of Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune?

Not very much, whatever the effect. That was in reference to detecting
Earth's acceleration. Because of our angular momentum, any force
trying to accelerate Earth would tend to gyrate it.

No, it causes precession, see below. It wouldn't
change the Earth's rotation.

This in turn will
increase the movement of the Earth's Oceans, increasing tidal friction;
a source of "global warming". Now obviously you mention those planets
for a reason. Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus, have about 98% of
the solar system's angular momentum. The Sun ironically has almost
none since the planets revolve around it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invariable_plane



It would precess the poles, but that happens in about
25000 years anyway because the Earth isn't a pefect
sphere due to its rotation so the gravity of the Sun
causes precession.

Yes but it would precess more (or less) and/or differently.

I'm waiting for you to calculate how much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_wobble
http://www.michaelmandeville.com/ear...le_anomaly.htm



No, any "DarkStar" influence would be much less than
the effect of the Sun.

They call it a Solar SYSTEM for a reason.

Because it is gravitationally bound.

As stated, everything
affects everything else. Most notably, Jupiter affects the Sun. And
any "DarkStar" that affects us also affects Jupiter.

Exactly, at any reasonable distance (i.e. where we
could not see it by eye) the effects on all components
of the system are almost exactly the same.

Jupiter then
affects the Sun; again, potential cause of more "global warming".

Nonsense, we know the orbit of Juipter is unaffected.

http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/barycntr.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_mass
http://www.economist.com/PrinterFrie...tory_id=348211

Jupiter causes the sun to wobble to and fro at a maximum radial
velocity of 12.5 metres a second.

So what?

Garbage. For example the apparent increase in earthquakes
is because detctors became more sensisytive and more are
in use. If you filter only those large enough to be measured
throughout the period, there s no increasing trend. Details
are on the US survey site somewhere but this is a well-known
'urban legend'.

I'm not so sure of that. The stats are out there for people to check.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/...ID=11&faqID=69

Right FAQ, wrong question:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/...ID=6&faqID=110

Speaking of Urban and Earthquake though; this is very interesting.

http://cires.colorado.edu/~bilham/Ur...alitiesSRL.pdf



Yes, pretty pictures with no statistical analysis, a
typical wothless crank site.

The "pretty pictures" cite sources at the bottom.

Sure, but where is the analysis of the data? You
can put a graph on a web page and suggest that
people can "see a relationship" but when you look
at the numbers with basic statistics you find there
is no pattern beyond random coincidence.

Having established the orbits over centuries of
observation, modern very accurate measurements
would easily detect a deviation at the level of the
anomaly. It isn't there so whatever the cause, it only
affects the craft.

Maybe, I'm not an expert.

No, but the people who are expert have checked.

But planets wobble, they don't fall down.
Very small changes in very large angular momentums my not be that
obvious.

As I have pointed out several times, angular momentum
of the Earth would not be affected, the result would
be a tiny change in the rate of the precession of the
equinoxes and of the perihelion of the orbit.

Anyway this is all hypothetical, even a brown dwarf
close enough to have any detectable influence would
be unable to go undetected.

George