How safe a haven?

"Allen Thomson" wrote in
oups.com:


Jorge R. Frank wrote:


How serious is the issue of no seat liner??

Broken back at landing, otherwise not a big deal.


But, to back up a bit, why would it be infeasible for
each shuttle flight to carry Soyuz seatliners for all
seven of its crewfolk? Weight? Volume? Expense?

Volume, then mass. With a limited number of shuttle flights to finish ISS,
anything new that goes onboard is going to displace something else.

The expense itself is not that high but finding a way to pay for them
legally will be a bitch.


--
JRF

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"Jeff Findley" wrote in
:

"Allen Thomson" wrote in message
oups.com...
But, to back up a bit, why would it be infeasible for
each shuttle flight to carry Soyuz seatliners for all
seven of its crewfolk? Weight? Volume? Expense?

Considering the shuttle program is about $4 billion a year, I'm sure
NASA could afford to do Soyuz seat liners for each of its astronauts
it flies on the shuttle.

If it were a NASA expense I'd agree. Finding a way to make these in-house
would avoid the legal issues.

Weight and volume would certainly be issues,
but you'd think it would be manageable, considering that the shuttle
was used several times for crew rotation on Mir and the seat liners
had to be swapped out on those flights.

Carrying seatliners for a crewmember who is going to stay on the station
(and therefore has a non-trivial chance of needing the seatliner) is a
little different from carrying seatliners for an entire shuttle crew that
will only be staying on ISS in the event of a remote contingency.
Especially considering that all the remaining Shuttle-ISS flights will be
flying at capacity so the seatliners will have to compete with other
priorities (like the ones you mention below).

Still, you'd think the easier thing to do would be to make sure ISS
was stocked with enough O2, H2O, and food to sustain a ten person crew
until a shuttle rescue mission could be flown. Part of this would be
making sure that Quest was fully stocked with full O2 tanks and that
all of the excess H2O from the shuttle fuel cells was being stored on
ISS.

Chicken-and-egg. The lack of shuttle flights has meant a rationing of ISS
resources since the Russians can barely fly enough Progresses to keep a
crew of two supplied. To really stock up the station, you need shuttle
flights. That means accepting that early shuttle flights will arrive at a
station a bit less well-stocked than later flights.

The food issue is relatively minor. As long as there is enough
water, dehydrated food would keep you alive.

And as long as proper inventory control is exercised...

--
JRF

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Seat Liners

Considering those TV ads of (supposedly) NASA developped foams used for
matresses, wouldn't there be some way to create a more generic seat
liner ?

This way, the station could stock a certain number of seat liners of
various sizes, capable of handling the gamut of body types for astronauts.

"Andrey Tarasevich" wrote in message
...
Derek Lyons wrote:
And if Columbia-like shuttle damage
forces an emergency rescue, he thinks two Soyuz capsules
could do it quicker than one U.S. backup shuttle.

And where precisely are these two 'extra' Soyuz going to come from?

What "two 'extra' Soyuz"? Can you read? He's taking about 1 (one) extra
Soyuz with a three-man capsule. Another capsule is already there on ISS,
meaning that six people will be able to return from ISS (two - ISS crew,
and another four - shuttle crew) leaving the ISS unoccupied.
Umm, the fact that often the shuttle is flying with more than 4 astronauts,
and needs that many to accomplish the required amount of work required in
the time while there, what do you do with the others, space them?



--
Best regards,
Andrey Tarasevich

"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
"Allen Thomson" wrote in
oups.com:


Jorge R. Frank wrote:


How serious is the issue of no seat liner??

Broken back at landing, otherwise not a big deal.


But, to back up a bit, why would it be infeasible for
each shuttle flight to carry Soyuz seatliners for all
seven of its crewfolk? Weight? Volume? Expense?

Volume, then mass. With a limited number of shuttle flights to finish ISS,
anything new that goes onboard is going to displace something else.


Volume? Can they be stored in something like a GAS can in the cargo bay and
accessed only if needed?


The expense itself is not that high but finding a way to pay for them
legally will be a bitch.


--
JRF

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"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote in
:


"Andrey Tarasevich" wrote in message
...
Derek Lyons wrote:
And if Columbia-like shuttle damage
forces an emergency rescue, he thinks two Soyuz capsules
could do it quicker than one U.S. backup shuttle.

And where precisely are these two 'extra' Soyuz going to come from?

What "two 'extra' Soyuz"? Can you read? He's taking about 1 (one)
extra Soyuz with a three-man capsule. Another capsule is already
there on ISS, meaning that six people will be able to return from ISS
(two - ISS crew, and another four - shuttle crew) leaving the ISS
unoccupied.
Umm, the fact that often the shuttle is flying with more than 4
astronauts, and needs that many to accomplish the required amount of
work required in the time while there, what do you do with the others,
space them?

I think he was implicitly accepting Krikalev's suggestion to reduce the
shuttle crew size to four. Of course, for this to work, you'd also have to
keep the ISS crew size at two.

--
JRF

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"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote in
:

"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
"Allen Thomson" wrote in
oups.com:


Jorge R. Frank wrote:


How serious is the issue of no seat liner??

Broken back at landing, otherwise not a big deal.


But, to back up a bit, why would it be infeasible for
each shuttle flight to carry Soyuz seatliners for all
seven of its crewfolk? Weight? Volume? Expense?

Volume, then mass. With a limited number of shuttle flights to finish
ISS, anything new that goes onboard is going to displace something
else.


Volume? Can they be stored in something like a GAS can in the cargo
bay and accessed only if needed?

Seems a tad inconvenient to require an EVA to retrieve them, no?


--
JRF

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"Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
Volume? Can they be stored in something like a GAS can in the cargo
bay and accessed only if needed?

Seems a tad inconvenient to require an EVA to retrieve them, no?

Can the SSRMS operate the Quest airlock door from the outside ?
(assuming tha hand has been installed). Would it technically be
possible to grab something from shuttle cargo bay and bring it inside
Quest, have the SSRMS close the hatch and crew repressurize the airlock
to gain access to the device ?

Or must there absolutely be someone inside the airlock to operate it and
the egress hatch ?


rk need not respond with his standard insults.

"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote in
:

Seems a tad inconvenient to require an EVA to retrieve them, no?

Considering you only have to do this in the event that "something goes
wrong" (i.e. you're forced to use the station as a safe haven) I don't see
that as a major barrier. Heck, put a pin on it and use the station arm to
pull it out of the cargo bay and place it near the airlock for easy
retrieval if and when you do need it.




--
JRF

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"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
Umm, the fact that often the shuttle is flying with more than 4
astronauts, and needs that many to accomplish the required amount of
work required in the time while there, what do you do with the others,
space them?

I think he was implicitly accepting Krikalev's suggestion to reduce the
shuttle crew size to four. Of course, for this to work, you'd also have to
keep the ISS crew size at two.


Right, which I think is rather silly.

--
JRF

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