..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself

On Oct 29, 9:42 am, Paul Foley wrote:

I can see why India might like to send astronauts to the moon. For
them, it would be a big deal to demonstrate that they are as
technologically advanced as the US was 30 years ago.

30 years ago, in 1977, the US would have found it utterly
impossible :-)

On Oct 28, 6:03 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Oct 27, 8:35 pm, Matt wrote:





On Oct 27, 9:59 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On Oct 27, 8:42 pm, macruzq wrote:

On Oct 27, 10:06 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

First Bush and his Vision to the moon, then Japan, India
and now China all gearing up to go back to the moon.

WHY?

The same reason for Apollo, we were in a ....military...race
with the Soviets. The Cold War. Now....the reason everyone
is going back to the moon???

MISSILE DEFENSE.

So, I guess after another FIFTY GODDAMMED YEARS
we'll end up with nothing more to show than the last
FIFTY YEARS IN SPACE.

Lots of really cool..very..expensive weapons we'll probably
never use. And a bunch of completely useless hardware
lying about on the moon.

Just like the ISS, the Grand Accomplishment of the last
FIFTY YEARS in space.

What a ****ing... excuse my lanquage, but it's so incredibly
infuriating to think about, no other word will do....
..what a ****ing waste.

Hey, hey! Calm down! Moon is TOO FAR to launch a missile. It is not
practical. Missiles or any weapons installed on the Moon is simply a
stupid idea.

But as easily deployed from the moon's L1 isn't exactly half bad.
- Brad Guth -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interceptor missiles launched from the moon or L1 would take hours to
reach near-Earth space - that's hopelessly too slow to affect a
ballistic missile attack from one point on Earth to another. Lasers or
other directed energy beams would spread too much at that range. No
one will put offensive missiles in such places, either: the enormous
effort of hauling the things up there is worthless given that a war
using Earth-based ballistic missiles will be over before missiles
needing (at best) hours to reach Earth can have any effect.

I agree, but a tethered platform of those nifty gigaWatt laser cannons
could rather easily be established to reach within 2r of Earth, and in
space there's not all that much beam divergence. Besides, a swarm of
nuclear warheads as incoming from the moon's L1 would be next to
impossible to divert or kill off any sufficient number before it's too
late, especially since many of those items could be of dirt cheap
phony decoys (perhaps made in China or India).

Actually, the fly-by-rocket task of getting loads of nifty stuff into
the moon's L1 orbit isn't all that spendy, especially if you're not in
any hurry for getting stuff there in the first place.
- Brad Guth -

BTW, any WWIII task will only be accomplished by an all out first
strike effort, and if it were launched from the tethered platform
that's merely 2r from the core of Earth (that distance being 6371 km
from Earth's surface) is not such a great fly-by-rocket distance to
travel, especially when having the gravity assist of Earth working on
behalf of those items launched towards Earth, which should arrive
within less than 10 minutes.
- Brad Guth -

On Oct 28, 6:06 pm, Neil Gerace wrote:
On Oct 29, 9:42 am, Paul Foley wrote:

I can see why India might like to send astronauts to the moon. For
them, it would be a big deal to demonstrate that they are as
technologically advanced as the US was 30 years ago.

30 years ago, in 1977, the US would have found it utterly
impossible :-)

That's the whole truth and nothing but the truth. (utterly impossible,
even as of today it is not human DNA friendly, nor do we have a viable
lander)
- Brad Guth -

Scott Ferrin wrote:
Only because you're mind is unable to grasp the concepts
I'm talking about. You do know everything I say is from
established courses taught at almost every respectable
university in the world. You DO KNOW THAT RIGHT?

Because ridiculing science because you can't understand it
is generally the domain of the religious and ignorant.

Which are you?






--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine



ROFL! Your post sounds like it was written by a sterotypical
conspiracy freak.

Maybe you could give us a rational explanation of the so-called
connection between returning to the moon and missile defense?


Remember, this is the guy who thinks that if you wait around long
enough, rocks will come alive all on their own.
If they don't have some sort of giant popular uprising during the
Beijing Olympics, his whole world view is going to fall apart.

Pat

Joe Strout wrote:

It's a bit sad to see, because you weren't always like this. Brad Guth,
as far as I've been aware of him, has always been a nutball. But you
were a reasonable newbie a couple years ago, with a simple passion for
space solar power, which in itself is not unreasonable. But now you've
gone off the deep end, alas.


When he first arrived he stated that he did drugs, and that he intended
to post things he really didn't really belive in to see how people
reacted to them.
In short, he looks upon himself as the researcher and the people in the
newsgroups he posts to as something like mice running around in his maze.

Pat

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:26:42 -0600, Pat Flannery
wrote:

When he first arrived he stated that he did drugs, and that he intended
to post things he really didn't really belive in to see how people
reacted to them.

....I remember that as well. IIRC, we also tracked him down through IP
address lookups to somewhere in Puget Sound, and one of our regulars
actually concluded that he was living in a flop above an old gas
station. Between the drugs and the octane fumes, it's no wonder
Guthball went nuts.

In short, he looks upon himself as the researcher and the people in the
newsgroups he posts to as something like mice running around in his maze.

....Oh, bull****. He's just making that up in a lame-assed attempt to
claim he's the only sane one here.

Bottom Line: The true test of sanity is whether or not you've sent
Brad Guth, Jonathan, and Elfritz to Killfile Hell, where they can
sodomize each other for eternity with Eric Chumpko and his wife, Fred
McCall. If you haven't killfiled these trolling *******s, then you're
just as insane as they are.

Seriously.

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[

On Oct 29, 9:26 am, Pat Flannery wrote:

I was referring to "Jonathan" from down in Florida.
Guth's moved BTW; he's now out in a fairly good-sized house at last
check (a couple of years ago) via a phone book and Google maps search.

Right about my having moved as of more than a decade ago.

Good grief, these silly folks are seriously out of touch, arnt they,
and they don't seem to know how a telephone works. You could even
visit and I wouldn't so terribly mind.

China's (CNSA) moon mission: Chang'e-1 should become downright
interesting, that is if they can manage to keep their stuff from
running into JAXA's KAGUYA/(SELENE) mission of three orbiting items.
As reported, China's lunar probe will supposedly remain at roughly 200
km, thus keeping a safe 100 km distance away from the KAGUYA/(SELENE)
mission, at least that's plan-A.

(From The Yomiuri Shimbun, Oct. 29, 2007)
"China's space technology was already at a high level. China has
launched more than 100 Long March rockets since 1970, while Japan's H2-
A rocket has been launched only 13 times."

KAGUYA/(SELENE) HDTV/CCD imaging getting its first full solar dosage
or skewed saturation of those pesky raw secondary photons.
http://www.jaxa.jp/press/2007/10/20071021_kaguya_e.pdf
http://www.selene.jaxa.jp/index_e.htm
http://www.kaguya.jaxa.jp/en/
Notice as to all of those unavoidable UV secondary/recoil worth of
bluish and/or extra violet saturation that KAGUYA/(SELENE) HDTV is
having to deal with, even though their having incorproated a
sufficient UV spectrum cut-off filter and currently using not more
than 1% worth of their HDTV dynamic range(DR), even so having no
problems with recording the physically dark moon along with Earth
that's not even half the albedo worth of Vemus which also has greater
than 2.6 kw/m2 to work with. Far better images are soon enough going
to be accomplished, especially with those other onboard CCD
instruments that'll far exceed what most previous science about our
extremely unusual moon.

Once their version of PhotoShop image colour adjustments are made, the
true depth of that physically dark contrast and spectrum of those
natural mineral rich moon colors will emerge (with far more extensive
scope than the naked human eye can detect).

Once again, it's really too bad that we still don't have anything
established within the moon's L1, much less accomplishing those 1
meter/pixel images that eventually KAGUYA/(SELENE) will likely manage
to accomplish towards the end of its one year mission, as the KAGUYA/
(SELENE) orbit becomes less than 10 km.
- Brad Guth -

OM wrote:

When he first arrived he stated that he did drugs, and that he intended
to post things he really didn't really belive in to see how people
reacted to them.


...I remember that as well. IIRC, we also tracked him down through IP
address lookups to somewhere in Puget Sound, and one of our regulars
actually concluded that he was living in a flop above an old gas
station. Between the drugs and the octane fumes, it's no wonder
Guthball went nuts.


I was referring to "Jonathan" from down in Florida.
Guth's moved BTW; he's now out in a fairly good-sized house at last
check (a couple of years ago) via a phone book and Google maps search.

Pat

Craig Fink wrote:

robert casey wrote:


The Moon's a lousy place to park your nuke bomb missiles


Nukes are old technology, they should be bannned.

Yes, but how do you enforce that ban? As it is, the USA is the only
nuke owner that ever actually used any "in anger", as they say in the
military. Way back a hundred or so years, the guy who invented TNT or
was it dynamite, Mr. Nobel (the guy who set up the Nobel peace prizes)
thought that such high explosives would make war too fearsome to do
anymore. Turns out he was off by an order of magnitude or 2. So far,
after WW2 and the USA nuking those two Japanese cities, nobody ever
dropped any more nuke bombs.

Today, what's worrisome is some place like Iran developing their own
nuke bombs, and their leadership may become crazy enough to actually use
them. At least the Russians and Chinese, and even the Indians and
Pakastanians(sp) understand would would happen if they dropped any
nukes, and none of them really wanted that to happen.

On Oct 29, 1:13 pm, robert casey wrote:
Craig Fink wrote:
robert casey wrote:

The Moon's a lousy place to park your nuke bomb missiles

Nukes are old technology, they should be bannned.

Yes, but how do you enforce that ban? As it is, the USA is the only
nuke owner that ever actually used any "in anger", as they say in the
military. Way back a hundred or so years, the guy who invented TNT or
was it dynamite, Mr. Nobel (the guy who set up the Nobel peace prizes)
thought that such high explosives would make war too fearsome to do
anymore. Turns out he was off by an order of magnitude or 2. So far,
after WW2 and the USA nuking those two Japanese cities, nobody ever
dropped any more nuke bombs.

They would have if they could have, and today there's a good dozen
such nuke capable alternatives from which those and much worse dirty
atomic bombs could get deployed, not to mention what good a little
semitic engineered VX couldn't finish off.


Today, what's worrisome is some place like Iran developing their own
nuke bombs, and their leadership may become crazy enough to actually use
them.

You mean that our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) and his faith-based
partners in crimes against humanity could provoke them into defending
themselves.


At least the Russians and Chinese, and even the Indians and
Pakastanians(sp) understand would would happen if they dropped any
nukes, and none of them really wanted that to happen.

But with some faith-based efforts that would make those crazy Zion
Yids into happy campers, by all means they could be provoked into
using them. In which case we'd have to return the favor with all the
love and affection of those almighty atomic bombs that we could
muster, and we've got way more than our fair share of those bad boys
in our inventory, possibly even enough to take on the whole anti-
semitic world.
- Brad Guth -