Confederate Flag??????

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:58:09 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(Derek Lyons) made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

(Rand Simberg) wrote:

For some, there's also a significant element of southern pride,
divorced from racism (many in the south never viewed themselves as
fighting for slavery--most of the poor white soldiers didn't have, and
didn't expect to have, slaves). It's a symbol of states rights in
general, as well, but it's become tainted by the Klan to the point
that it's counterproductive to use it in this way.

Precisely Jim, precisely.

I'm not Jim, but I've been called worse. Probably even by you. ;-)

Jim Oberg wrote:

Does it also apply to those who appropriate other
symbols, my favorite example being the 'peace'
cross, originally for nuclear disarmanent, but
in the 1960s the symbol of surrender to communist
conquest, enslavement, and massacre of millions
of people.


Huh? The North Vietnamese and Viet Cong killed millions of people?
We killed over a million NVA/VC during the war; no one knows what the
civilian death toll was, but it was certainly up in the millions. Hanoi
says four million: http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html

Pat

h (Rand Simberg) wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:58:09 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(Derek Lyons) made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

(Rand Simberg) wrote:

For some, there's also a significant element of southern pride,
divorced from racism (many in the south never viewed themselves as
fighting for slavery--most of the poor white soldiers didn't have, and
didn't expect to have, slaves). It's a symbol of states rights in
general, as well, but it's become tainted by the Klan to the point
that it's counterproductive to use it in this way.

Precisely Jim, precisely.

I'm not Jim, but I've been called worse. Probably even by you. ;-)

Aren't we all cells in the Mind anyhow?

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...

wrote
The current symbolism of the Confederate battle flag has little
to do with the Civil War, or with slavery. It has much more to
do with its appropriation as a symbol by racist groups like
the KKK, (and by other less-overt racists) etc., during the
height of the civil rights era. Ask any African American what
that flag means to them - they won't mention the Civil War.
Shelby Foote spoke about how his reverence for the flag
had been overcome by his disgust for those who had
appropriated it as a racist banner.

Good point. But also recall that the flag showed
up in southern state flags, as I recall, at the
invitation of Eisenhower in advance of Civil War
centennial historical recognition. It coincided with
the growth of civil rights movements, and the rest,
sadly, is history.

A symbol can be hijacked. After all, the Nazis
appropriated the swastika from its 'good' connotations,
and it ain't NEVER going back.

Tell me about it.

I sort of chuckle to myself everytime I stop in a local post-office,
obviously built pre-1938 and look at the obvious swaztika symbols on the
ceiling. Wonder how many notice them.

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...

A symbol can be hijacked. After all, the Nazis
appropriated the swastika from its 'good' connotations,
and it ain't NEVER going back.

I sort of chuckle to myself everytime I stop in a local post-office,
obviously built pre-1938 and look at the obvious swaztika symbols on the
ceiling. Wonder how many notice them.

nods Buried away in my SF collection is an anthology of superhero
stories... One of the better of which deals with Captain Swastika,
whose last (and aging) incarnation was trapped in a cave in 1932. He
cannot figure out why no one will accept the gift of his powers and
carry on the tradition.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

(paraphrasing George Carlin) The Confederate flag itself isn't racist; it's
the ignorant, m.f., bigot waving the flag that is racist.

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:24:01 GMT, (Derek Lyons) wrote:

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

I sort of chuckle to myself everytime I stop in a local post-office,
obviously built pre-1938 and look at the obvious swaztika symbols on the
ceiling. Wonder how many notice them.

nods Buried away in my SF collection is an anthology of superhero
stories... One of the better of which deals with Captain Swastika,
whose last (and aging) incarnation was trapped in a cave in 1932. He
cannot figure out why no one will accept the gift of his powers and
carry on the tradition.

So, he escaped from the cave at some point, since he had contact
with people he could pass his gift on to?

I'm not familiar with the character, but I'm guessing his super powers
didn't include catching up with what when on while he was away...

Dale

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:50:09 -0700, I wrote:

... what when on

Errr- "what went on"...

Dale

Suffering from a touch of hallerbitis

In article ,
Derek Lyons wrote:
How many people died due to slavery in the U.S.? ...

Do keep in mind that, despite what the propogandists would have you
believe, that virtually all of those suffered and died not under the
stars-and-bars; but under the stars-and-stripes.

And then there's the Trail Of Tears... The total death toll in the West
(for various definitions of "West", depending on date) could even exceed
that in the south (I'm guessing), given that slaves at least were valuable
property, while Indians were just in the way.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:13:27 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(Henry Spencer) made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

In article ,
Derek Lyons wrote:
How many people died due to slavery in the U.S.? ...

Do keep in mind that, despite what the propogandists would have you
believe, that virtually all of those suffered and died not under the
stars-and-bars; but under the stars-and-stripes.

And then there's the Trail Of Tears... The total death toll in the West
(for various definitions of "West", depending on date) could even exceed
that in the south (I'm guessing), given that slaves at least were valuable
property, while Indians were just in the way.

Not sure that the Amerindian population in CONUS was ever high enough
during colonial/USian times to have a comparable death toll. Not that
that excuses it, of course.