Why Colonize Space?

In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

The traditional western european dark ages werent really all that dark,
just didnt produce much in the way of dramatic changes that later times
like the renaissance etc did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages

From what I've read the later "Dark Ages" produced a lot of
technological innovation, but it didn't get written down. Or, if it did,
the parchment was scrapped and something else written on it.

In article
,
Quadibloc wrote:

On Aug 4, 4:00*pm, wrote:

Nope, Rod Speed lives in an alternate universe where his computer
motherboards all have OEM part numbers on the parts, which are all in
sockets, and come with a Taradyne board tester, fixtures and test programs
to find failed components.

Also, all of his tires are uneffected by either ozone or UV exposure and
last for decades as opposed to a few years like in this universe.

Actually, those things are not that unreasonable.

If one's disaster shelter is not a private production, but something
set up by the U.S. government, I'm quite sure that the Department of
Defense is capable of having fully-socketed computer motherboards,
with parts having their OEM part numbers on them, and spares, and the
like, supplied to it. Even if they cost $5,000 each because of the
cost of paperwork to certify they were made by equal opportunity
employers.

Tires can be made of synthetic rubber.

John Savard

Made to Mil specs and ruggedized. Hard disks designed to _last_ not
necessarily made the cheapest, or the smallest. Bigger bits and more
redundancy.

:: How do the power generators and distributors work?
:: don't they use computers?

: Ho, boy, electric power far preceded the computer.

And regulation of power distribution was handled by big electromechancial
switches, with lots of human decision making involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_(transformer)
In a typical diverter switch powerful springs are tensioned by a low
power motor (motor drive unit (MDU)), and then rapidly released to
effect the tap changing operation. To reduce arcing at the
contacts, the tap changer operates in a chamber filled with
insulating transformer oil, or inside an SF6 vessel. Reactance-type
tap changers, when operating in oil, must allow for with the
additional inductive flyback generated by the autotransformer and
commonly include a vacuum bottle in parallel with the diverter
switch. During a tap-change operation, the flyback raises the
potential between the two electrodes in the bottle, and some of the
energy is dissipated in an arc discharge through the bottle instead
of flashing across the diverter switch.

Plus too, even nowdays when there is computer control of things, they
aren't exactly just wired up to the internet and running windows so they
can catch a virus.


Wayne Throop http://sheol.org/throopw

Walter Bushell wrote
Rod Speed wrote

The traditional western european dark ages werent really
all that dark, just didnt produce much in the way of dramatic
changes that later times like the renaissance etc did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages

From what I've read the later "Dark Ages" produced a lot of technological innovation,

Quite a bit, particular military stuff like the longbow etc and fortifications etc.

but it didn't get written down.

Yeah, quite a bit of it didnt, because most were illiterate at that time.

Or, if it did, the parchment was scrapped and something else written on it.

Wasnt that so much as **** all could read and write except the religious etc.

Walter Bushell wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Trivial to provide the power with solar etc.

Rest of power by steam engines, piston type, with a supply
of bearings could be kept going by blacksmith level technology.

Perhaps we consult the Amish.

They arent much into alternative electricity for some reason.

Never really could grasp why some things are allowed and others not, never made any real sense.

In spades with the silly **** like the color of braces you are allowed to wear etc.

Walter Bushell wrote:
In article , jmfbahciv jmfbahciv@aol
wrote:

How do the power generators and distributors work? don't they use
computers?

Ho, boy, electric power far preceded the computer.

Are you really taking the stance that power generation and distribution
will continue today if all computers shut down? Have you been following
the thread drifts in this topic?

/BAH

Walter Bushell wrote:
In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

The traditional western european dark ages werent really all that dark,
just didnt produce much in the way of dramatic changes that later times
like the renaissance etc did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages

From what I've read the later "Dark Ages" produced a lot of
technological innovation, but it didn't get written down. Or, if it did,
the parchment was scrapped and something else written on it.

The Dark Ages were dark because trade was constrained to local
geographical areas. A lot of knowledge of how to do work
was also lost.

/BAH

Wayne Throop wrote:
:: How do the power generators and distributors work?
:: don't they use computers?

: Ho, boy, electric power far preceded the computer.

And regulation of power distribution was handled by big electromechancial
switches, with lots of human decision making involved.

Do you think that's (lots of human decision making involved) is
still being done?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_(transformer)
In a typical diverter switch powerful springs are tensioned by a low
power motor (motor drive unit (MDU)), and then rapidly released to
effect the tap changing operation. To reduce arcing at the
contacts, the tap changer operates in a chamber filled with
insulating transformer oil, or inside an SF6 vessel. Reactance-type
tap changers, when operating in oil, must allow for with the
additional inductive flyback generated by the autotransformer and
commonly include a vacuum bottle in parallel with the diverter
switch. During a tap-change operation, the flyback raises the
potential between the two electrodes in the bottle, and some of the
energy is dissipated in an arc discharge through the bottle instead
of flashing across the diverter switch.

Plus too, even nowdays when there is computer control of things, they
aren't exactly just wired up to the internet and running windows so they
can catch a virus.

Are you sure? I'll have to remember to look at control rooms of
power plants and count the on/off switches, dials, and other
mechanical controls. Then I'll count the number of TTY screens
with GUIs and compare the count. ;-)

/BAH


/BAH

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:16:49 -0400, jmfbahciv jmfbahciv@aol
wrote:

Wayne Throop wrote:
:: How do the power generators and distributors work?
:: don't they use computers?

: Ho, boy, electric power far preceded the computer.

And regulation of power distribution was handled by big electromechancial
switches, with lots of human decision making involved.

Do you think that's (lots of human decision making involved) is
still being done?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_(transformer)
In a typical diverter switch powerful springs are tensioned by a low
power motor (motor drive unit (MDU)), and then rapidly released to
effect the tap changing operation. To reduce arcing at the
contacts, the tap changer operates in a chamber filled with
insulating transformer oil, or inside an SF6 vessel. Reactance-type
tap changers, when operating in oil, must allow for with the
additional inductive flyback generated by the autotransformer and
commonly include a vacuum bottle in parallel with the diverter
switch. During a tap-change operation, the flyback raises the
potential between the two electrodes in the bottle, and some of the
energy is dissipated in an arc discharge through the bottle instead
of flashing across the diverter switch.

Plus too, even nowdays when there is computer control of things, they
aren't exactly just wired up to the internet and running windows so they
can catch a virus.

Are you sure? I'll have to remember to look at control rooms of
power plants and count the on/off switches, dials, and other
mechanical controls. Then I'll count the number of TTY screens
with GUIs and compare the count. ;-)

You'll find that the emergency-shutdown ("flame safety") sections
of them, at least, have hardwired backups to all the fancy stuff.
Slam your hand down on the Master Fuel Trip button, and
old-fashioned electromechanical relays and spring-loaded shutoff
valves and the like do their stuff, even if every computer in the
place is off in la-la land.

--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]

In article , (Wayne Throop) writes:
:: How do the power generators and distributors work?
:: don't they use computers?

: Ho, boy, electric power far preceded the computer.

And regulation of power distribution was handled by big electromechancial
switches, with lots of human decision making involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_(transformer)
In a typical diverter switch powerful springs are tensioned by a low
power motor (motor drive unit (MDU)), and then rapidly released to

energy is dissipated in an arc discharge through the bottle instead
of flashing across the diverter switch.

Plus too, even nowdays when there is computer control of things, they
aren't exactly just wired up to the internet and running windows so they
can catch a virus.

Well, you're partially correct here.

LTCs (Load Tap Changers) aren't "connected to the Internet" and they
don't run Windows, or any other OS. However, they are often connected
to the RTU (Remote Terminal Unit) in the substation's control house.

The RTU is connected to the SCADA or EMS (Supervisory Control And Data
Acquisition or Energy Management System). This allows an operator,
quite possibly hundreds of miles away, to issue a jogging control to
raise or lower the LTC by one step. However, I'd guess that most LTCs
are still on local control.

As far as the communication between the SCADA (or EMS) and the RTU
is concerned, it's mostly over dedicated serial communications lines.
However, newer protocols, such as DNP 3.0 (i) and IEC 870-5 (104),
do support communication over IP.

Because of the risk that you allude to, both the DNP User's Group and
the appropriate IEC Technical Committee have new standards that support
both encryption and authentication.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include Standard_Disclaimer
2 + 2 = 5, for sufficiently large values of 2