Why Colonize Space?

(Wayne Throop) wrote:

: "Rod Speed"
: Sure, if say a Mars sized body did collide with the earth,
: we would indeed have a problem, but there isnt any way
: to protect against that by colonising anywhere else.

Well... sure there is. If an independent ecosystem were
established on space habitats, or on Mars, that would protect
against a planetary sized impactor.

A colony in low earth orbit would be destroyed by the "splash" of
anything big enough to destroy the Earth's ecosystem. You'd have to
be out at L5 or so to be immune.

--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27

"Rod Speed" wrote:

Wayne Throop wrote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Formation
The prevailing hypothesis today is that the Earth\u2013Moon system
formed as a result of a giant impact

Doesnt make it gospel that that is what actualy happened.

Not gospel, but it's the way to bet. Discarding the hypothesis
without a better one doesn't support your argument.

--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27

"Rod Speed" wrote:

Wayne Throop wrote:

An impactor the size of the one that created the moon

You dont know thats how the moon was created.

There's really not all that much that's "known" with absolute certainty.

That is just one of the obvious possibilitys for the
formation of the moon and isnt even the most likely.

trolling
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27

trag wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:57 am, jmfbahciv jmfbahciv@aol wrote:

ummm...computers will be the first to disappear. You can't fix
them.

Of course you can. You can't fix the individual chips, but a well
equipped kitchen and paint shop (plus a soldering pencil) has all the
tools you need to replace the components on the circuit boards. To
make things easier, you could stock older tech computers whose
components are easier to solder/desolder, i.e., QFPs instead of BGAs.


This doesn't really work in practice. I mean it *REALLY doesn't
work, and it costs far too much to try.

--
Les Cargill

jmfbahciv wrote:
Michael Price wrote:
On Aug 2, 6:02 pm, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
Greg Goss wrote:
Dimensional Traveler wrote:
Greg Goss wrote:
I believe that a ten year underground "disaster shelter" colony
would be cheaper than an equivalent one on the moon, mars or L5.
It would be trivial to build it to be survivable to a chixhulub
impact, so long as the dinosaur killer didn't hit it dead-on. So you need to build more than one.
And you need to build it ahead of time. I don't think it can be
built after observing an approaching asteroid.
Can we build shelters for several hundred thousand that are
capable of surviving an ELE impact? Serious question, I don't
know that we can. And how many would have to be saved to do
better than a subsistence level farming society a generation
after impact?
The first generation out would have better than subsistence farming
tech and the
fuel to run it. There would be a race between things wearing out and
producing the
capacity to replace them but remember, you just have to manufacture,
you don't
have to design or even test that much. Starter tech like lathes,
computers etc.
take almost no space. You have the blueprints. You also have a
LOT of land. The problem might be getting enough of other species to
get the
ecosystem in general working right.


ummm...computers will be the first to disappear.

Wrong.

You can't fix them.

Corse you can, and they are so reliable that you dont need to most of the time anyway.

jmfbahciv wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
jmfbahciv jmfbahciv@aol writes:
wrote:
In sci.physics Walter Bushell wrote:
In article ,
Greg Goss wrote:

Dimensional Traveler wrote:

Greg Goss wrote:
I believe that a ten year underground "disaster shelter"
colony would be cheaper than an equivalent one on the moon,
mars or L5. It would be trivial to build it to be survivable
to a chixhulub impact, so long as the dinosaur killer didn't
hit it dead-on. So you need to build more than one.

And you need to build it ahead of time. I don't think it can
be built after observing an approaching asteroid.

Can we build shelters for several hundred thousand that are
capable of surviving an ELE impact? Serious question, I don't
know that we can. And how many would have to be saved to do
better than a subsistence level farming society a generation
after impact?
Subsistence farmers is good enough to my mind. I'm worried about
species survival. I think a thousand or two unrelated people is
considered enough for this.
I sure we could make things that would last for generations, and
it would be a matter of ten peasants for everyone who did
something else for a while. Or maybe even keep Amish level
technology with sprinkles of old stuff.
Absent some heroic preservation techniques, all of your tires will
be ozone rotted by ten years.

Don't forget to include some wheelwrights and blacksmiths among the
"peasants".

It would probably be nice to have some weavers, shoemakers,
candlemakers, soapmakers, seamstresses, cabinet makers, furniture
makers, rug makers, clockmakers, papermakers, and a few other
artizens.
don't forget the spinning wheels and ball bearings.

/BAH

Babbett bearings only require the ability to pour bronze, and a
lubricant.

I never heard of those. That's two things, new to me, in this thread.
Kewl.


Bearings may also be made from oily woods, and often work for ships
propeller shafts, even today.

I don't think I've ever seen any wood bearings.

Corse you have. They're not that unusual in drawers.

Were any bearings used in sailing ships (now that I'm thinking about this)?

Corse there were, in the block and tackle.

In sci.physics Les Cargill wrote:
trag wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:57 am, jmfbahciv jmfbahciv@aol wrote:

ummm...computers will be the first to disappear. You can't fix
them.

Of course you can. You can't fix the individual chips, but a well
equipped kitchen and paint shop (plus a soldering pencil) has all the
tools you need to replace the components on the circuit boards. To
make things easier, you could stock older tech computers whose
components are easier to solder/desolder, i.e., QFPs instead of BGAs.


This doesn't really work in practice. I mean it *REALLY doesn't
work, and it costs far too much to try.

--
Les Cargill

Other than most of the parts have house numbers on them and you can't
determine the OEM part number and absent some rather expensive test
equipment you can't in general trouble shoot to the component level,
what's so hard about it? :-)


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Rod Speed" writes:
jmfbahciv wrote:
Michael Price wrote:
On Aug 2, 6:02 pm, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
Greg Goss wrote:
Dimensional Traveler wrote:
Greg Goss wrote:
I believe that a ten year underground "disaster shelter" colony
would be cheaper than an equivalent one on the moon, mars or L5.
It would be trivial to build it to be survivable to a chixhulub
impact, so long as the dinosaur killer didn't hit it dead-on. So you need to build more than one.
And you need to build it ahead of time. I don't think it can be
built after observing an approaching asteroid.
Can we build shelters for several hundred thousand that are
capable of surviving an ELE impact? Serious question, I don't
know that we can. And how many would have to be saved to do
better than a subsistence level farming society a generation
after impact?
The first generation out would have better than subsistence farming
tech and the
fuel to run it. There would be a race between things wearing out and
producing the
capacity to replace them but remember, you just have to manufacture,
you don't
have to design or even test that much. Starter tech like lathes,
computers etc.
take almost no space. You have the blueprints. You also have a
LOT of land. The problem might be getting enough of other species to
get the
ecosystem in general working right.


ummm...computers will be the first to disappear.

Wrong.

Non-responsive. Please describe why you disagree with the statement.


You can't fix them.

Corse you can, and they are so reliable that you dont need to most of the time anyway.

I see. You're just a troll that can't spell.

scott

jmfbahciv wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
jmfbahciv jmfbahciv@aol writes:
wrote:
In sci.physics Walter Bushell wrote:
In article ,
Greg Goss wrote:

Dimensional Traveler wrote:

Greg Goss wrote:
I believe that a ten year underground "disaster shelter"
colony would be cheaper than an equivalent one on the moon,
mars or L5. It would be trivial to build it to be survivable
to a chixhulub impact, so long as the dinosaur killer didn't
hit it dead-on. So you need to build more than one.

And you need to build it ahead of time. I don't think it can
be built after observing an approaching asteroid.

Can we build shelters for several hundred thousand that are
capable of surviving an ELE impact? Serious question, I don't
know that we can. And how many would have to be saved to do
better than a subsistence level farming society a generation
after impact?
Subsistence farmers is good enough to my mind. I'm worried about
species survival. I think a thousand or two unrelated people is
considered enough for this.
I sure we could make things that would last for generations, and
it would be a matter of ten peasants for everyone who did
something else for a while. Or maybe even keep Amish level
technology with sprinkles of old stuff.
Absent some heroic preservation techniques, all of your tires will
be ozone rotted by ten years.

Don't forget to include some wheelwrights and blacksmiths among the
"peasants".

It would probably be nice to have some weavers, shoemakers,
candlemakers, soapmakers, seamstresses, cabinet makers, furniture
makers, rug makers, clockmakers, papermakers, and a few other
artizens.
don't forget the spinning wheels and ball bearings.

/BAH

Babbett bearings only require the ability to pour bronze, and a
lubricant.

I never heard of those. That's two things, new to me, in this thread.
Kewl.


Bearings may also be made from oily woods, and often work for ships
propeller shafts, even today.

I don't think I've ever seen any wood bearings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_vitae

scott

In sci.physics Scott Lurndal wrote:
"Rod Speed" writes:
jmfbahciv wrote:
Michael Price wrote:
On Aug 2, 6:02 pm, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
Greg Goss wrote:
Dimensional Traveler wrote:
Greg Goss wrote:
I believe that a ten year underground "disaster shelter" colony
would be cheaper than an equivalent one on the moon, mars or L5.
It would be trivial to build it to be survivable to a chixhulub
impact, so long as the dinosaur killer didn't hit it dead-on. So you need to build more than one.
And you need to build it ahead of time. I don't think it can be
built after observing an approaching asteroid.
Can we build shelters for several hundred thousand that are
capable of surviving an ELE impact? Serious question, I don't
know that we can. And how many would have to be saved to do
better than a subsistence level farming society a generation
after impact?
The first generation out would have better than subsistence farming
tech and the
fuel to run it. There would be a race between things wearing out and
producing the
capacity to replace them but remember, you just have to manufacture,
you don't
have to design or even test that much. Starter tech like lathes,
computers etc.
take almost no space. You have the blueprints. You also have a
LOT of land. The problem might be getting enough of other species to
get the
ecosystem in general working right.


ummm...computers will be the first to disappear.

Wrong.

Non-responsive. Please describe why you disagree with the statement.


You can't fix them.

Corse you can, and they are so reliable that you dont need to most of the time anyway.

I see. You're just a troll that can't spell.

scott

Nope, Rod Speed lives in an alternate universe where his computer
motherboards all have OEM part numbers on the parts, which are all in
sockets, and come with a Taradyne board tester, fixtures and test programs
to find failed components.

Also, all of his tires are uneffected by either ozone or UV exposure and
last for decades as opposed to a few years like in this universe.

In his universe there is a mass limit at which things become immoveable.

If you disgree with his universe you are a lying idiot.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.