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BFR early next year.



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 13th 18, 01:37 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
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Posts: 358
Default BFR early next year.


Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket
would start doing small test flights early next year.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/

Of course we all know (including himself) about his track record
on respecting schedule. Still, if he says he wants to fly early
next year, the rocket development must be somewhat advanced.


Alain Fournier
Ads
  #2  
Old March 13th 18, 10:53 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 1,763
Default BFR early next year.

In article ,
says...

On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote:

Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket
would start doing small test flights early next year.



"small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which
a Mentos candy is dropped? :-)


Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines.

For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test
it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it
possible to mount new engine)


What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines?


BFS. It could be that the first BFS would be similar to Grasshopper or
Enterprise in that it won't have all the systems necessary for
supporting a crew in space. Automated testing only.

Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank
instead of Kerosene for a test flight?


No, not without significant engineering, which would be a complete waste
of time and money.

Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR
stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ?


I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR.
Also, it might even have SSTO capability by itself without much payload
of course.

From a light load point of view, is it a problem of the methane and LOX
tanks are only partly fueled since this is such a short flight? or would
this require smaller tanks?


You can do a partial fill for short "hops". Does your car's gas tank
need to be full to make a trip to the grocery store?

Or can the tank be fitted with a helium
filled balloon that fill's the otherwise empty tank space?


WTF? Nope, nope, nope.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #3  
Old March 13th 18, 01:20 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 9,818
Default BFR early next year.

JF Mezei wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
04:39:45 -0400:

On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote:

Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket
would start doing small test flights early next year.


"small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which
a Mentos candy is dropped? :-)


Small test such as lift off, hover, land.


Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines.

For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test
it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it
possible to mount new engine)

What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines?


Why would he need to? He needs to test fly pieces of the actual
rocket. If you're just dinking with engines you can get most of your
data from ground tests.


Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank
instead of Kerosene for a test flight?


They can, but why the hell would they do that?


Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR
stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ?


That's probably the simplest route. Or they could do BFS first.


From a light load point of view, is it a problem of the methane and LOX
tanks are only partly fueled since this is such a short flight?


Why would that be a problem? The rocket has to continue to work when
the tanks are partially empty, after all.


or would
this require smaller tanks? Or can the tank be fitted with a helium
filled balloon that fill's the otherwise empty tank space?


You REALLY don't understand this stuff, do you?


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
  #5  
Old March 13th 18, 10:01 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 358
Default BFR early next year.

On Mar/13/2018 at 5:53 AM, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article ,
says...

On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote:

Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket
would start doing small test flights early next year.



"small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which
a Mentos candy is dropped? :-)


Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines.

For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test
it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it
possible to mount new engine)


What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines?


BFS. It could be that the first BFS would be similar to Grasshopper or
Enterprise in that it won't have all the systems necessary for
supporting a crew in space. Automated testing only.


In
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/
it isn't quite clear whether the test if for BFR or BFS. But I'm not
sure if you are stating as fact that it will be BFS or if that is
just your guess. So do you know that it will be BFS or do you think
it will be BFS.

Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank
instead of Kerosene for a test flight?


No, not without significant engineering, which would be a complete waste
of time and money.

Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR
stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ?


I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR.
Also, it might even have SSTO capability by itself without much payload
of course.


I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability.
It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle.


If they do just a little hop with BFR or BFS, I would call that just
a small test. But I'm not if it should be called a small ****ing test
or what :-)


Alain Fournier
  #6  
Old March 13th 18, 11:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Niklas Holsti
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default BFR early next year.

On 18-03-13 23:01 , Alain Fournier wrote:
...
I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability.
It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle.


Musk has said the BFS can do SSTO. Quotes from Musk's answer at
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musks...bfs-spaceship/,
section headed "DEVELOPMENT SCHEDULE":

--- start quote:

Q: ... Will we see BFS hops or smaller test vehicles similar to
Grasshopper/F9R-Dev? Facilities being built? Propellant plant testing?
etc. etc.

A (Elon): Will be starting with a full-scale Ship doing short hops of a
few hundred kilometers altitude and lateral distance. Those are fairly
easy on the vehicle, as no heat shield is needed, we can have a large
amount of reserve propellant and don’t need the high area ratio, deep
space Raptor engines.

Next step will be doing orbital velocity Ship flights, which will need
all of the above. Worth noting that BFS is capable of reaching orbit by
itself with low payload, but having the BF Booster increases payload by
more than an order of magnitude. Earth is the wrong planet for single
stage to orbit. No problemo on Mars.

--- end quote.


--
Niklas Holsti
Tidorum Ltd
niklas holsti tidorum fi
. @ .
  #7  
Old March 13th 18, 11:36 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,763
Default BFR early next year.

In article ,
lid says...

On 18-03-13 11:53 , Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote:

Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket
would start doing small test flights early next year.

...
Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR
stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ?


I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR.


For small, Grasshopper-like hops, it would be enough to mount just one
of the two (or are there now more than two?) BFS sea-level engines.


Agreed. Two, from this pictu

https://ourplnt.com/wp-content/uploa...-1024x1024.jpg

From a light load point of view, is it a problem of the methane and LOX
tanks are only partly fueled since this is such a short flight? or would
this require smaller tanks?


You can do a partial fill for short "hops". Does your car's gas tank
need to be full to make a trip to the grocery store?


The BFS has the smaller "header tanks" (inside the main fuel tank). If
only these tanks are used in the hops, the unused volume is not so large.


Yep, that's what it shows in the picture.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #8  
Old March 13th 18, 11:38 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,763
Default BFR early next year.

In article , says...

On Mar/13/2018 at 5:53 AM, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article ,
says...

On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote:

Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket
would start doing small test flights early next year.


"small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which
a Mentos candy is dropped? :-)


Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines.

For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test
it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it
possible to mount new engine)


What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines?


BFS. It could be that the first BFS would be similar to Grasshopper or
Enterprise in that it won't have all the systems necessary for
supporting a crew in space. Automated testing only.


In
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/
it isn't quite clear whether the test if for BFR or BFS. But I'm not
sure if you are stating as fact that it will be BFS or if that is
just your guess. So do you know that it will be BFS or do you think
it will be BFS.


It's my interpretation of what Musk has said. I could be wrong.

Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank
instead of Kerosene for a test flight?


No, not without significant engineering, which would be a complete waste
of time and money.

Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR
stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ?


I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR.
Also, it might even have SSTO capability by itself without much payload
of course.


I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability.
It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle.


Hey, that's what Musk has said. He's the "chief engineer" at SpaceX.
Gwynne Shotwell runs the business from day to day.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #9  
Old March 13th 18, 11:40 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,763
Default BFR early next year.

In article ,
says...

On 2018-03-13 17:01, Alain Fournier wrote:

If they do just a little hop with BFR or BFS, I would call that just
a small test. But I'm not if it should be called a small ****ing test
or what :-)


I they are able to get to test either BFS or BFR with real engines and
real tanks by next year, it is a HUGE thing because it means they have
progressed significantly in all of the core issues that allow scaling to
such a large rocket.


They built a full scale composite tank and pressure tested it to
destruction a couple years ago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/space...nk-ocean-ship-
test-2016-11

Getting to the point where you can build the prototypes is a big thing
even if the test flight ends up being glorified fireworks.


The prototypes had better be close to BFR/BFS in many ways, or it
wouldn't be very useful would it?

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #10  
Old March 14th 18, 12:23 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,818
Default BFR early next year.

Alain Fournier wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
17:01:07 -0400:

On Mar/13/2018 at 5:53 AM, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article ,
says...

On 2018-03-12 20:37, Alain Fournier wrote:

Elon Musk said at South by Southwest that his Big Falcon Rocket
would start doing small test flights early next year.


"small test" ? a 1m high scale model with a tank of diet coke into which
a Mentos candy is dropped? :-)


Space-X apparently has begun to test its new Raptor engines.

For commercial aircraft, they can mount a new engine on a 747 and test
it in flight. (same fuel, and sufficiently spaced pylons make it
possible to mount new engine)


What are Musk's options to test fly the new engines?


BFS. It could be that the first BFS would be similar to Grasshopper or
Enterprise in that it won't have all the systems necessary for
supporting a crew in space. Automated testing only.


In
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...xsw_interview/
it isn't quite clear whether the test if for BFR or BFS. But I'm not
sure if you are stating as fact that it will be BFS or if that is
just your guess. So do you know that it will be BFS or do you think
it will be BFS.


Looking it up, Musk said, I think we might be able to do short hopper
flights with the spaceship part of BFR, maybe next year. By hopper
tests, I mean kind of like the beginning of the Grasshopper program
for Falcon 9... it will go up several miles and come down."

So that should be the end of all speculation.

Can they built a Falcon-9 with a few raptor engines and a methane tank
instead of Kerosene for a test flight?


No, not without significant engineering, which would be a complete waste
of time and money.

Or must one assume that a test flight will be raptor engines on a BFR
stage 1 (even if it is topped by a cone instead of stage 2) ?


I believe BFS will be tested first. It has fewer engines than BFR.
Also, it might even have SSTO capability by itself without much payload
of course.


I would be very surprised if BFS had anything close to SSTO capability.
It is a spaceship not a launch vehicle.


It is both. Musk has stated that BFR Spaceship is capable of SSTO
operation, but only with small payloads. Remember, this thing is not
JUST a spaceship. It is designed to land on both Earth and Mars and
to take off powered from Mars and return to Earth. It is also
intended to be able to do transcontinental flights with large
payloads.


If they do just a little hop with BFR or BFS, I would call that just
a small test. But I'm not if it should be called a small ****ing test
or what :-)


The 'little hop' will apparently be on the order of several hundred
kilometers up and sideways and then return.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
 




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