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LIGO test results
I was wondering concerning the ethical standards in today’s world of
scientific research if by chance LIGO does not detect gravity waves. What would chances be test results becoming skewed or even falsified? Even though LIGO’s engineering and components are state of the art. The way LIGO is set up seems way too simple and easy. In my opinion that if you want to get those laser beams to start flickering the LIGO apparatus should be torn from the ground and flung through space at a constant velocity. I don’t think even LISA will work right unless it’s moving. If one of the laser projectors were moving and chasing the receiver while maintaining a fixed velocity and distance only then along with proper orientation to the GR waveform would you get a measurable signal. With the LIGO systems already built now or planned being in a stationary position or “NULL” state. It doesn’t seem that likely gravity waves are going to be easily detected. |
#2
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LIGO test results
"Ozmodium" wrote in message news:A2b6f.158$Yn4.95@trnddc03... I was wondering concerning the ethical standards in today’s world of scientific research if by chance LIGO does not detect gravity waves. What would chances be test results becoming skewed or even falsified? None. It is already known that this version of LIGO is unlikely to detect them, the next version "LIGO 2" will be fifteen times more sensitive and has a better chance. Even though LIGO’s engineering and components are state of the art. The way LIGO is set up seems way too simple and easy. In my opinion that if you want to get those laser beams to start flickering the LIGO apparatus should be torn from the ground and flung through space at a constant velocity. http://lisa.jpl.nasa.gov/ George |
#3
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LIGO test results
"Ozmodium" wrote in message news:A2b6f.158$Yn4.95@trnddc03...
I was wondering concerning the ethical standards in today’s world of scientific research if by chance LIGO does not detect gravity waves. What would chances be test results becoming skewed or even falsified? No chance. There's too much interest and too many eyes on the work, and any chicanery would instantly end careers. Even though LIGO’s engineering and components are state of the art. The way LIGO is set up seems way too simple and easy. In my opinion that if you want to get those laser beams to start flickering the LIGO apparatus should be torn from the ground and flung through space at a constant velocity. Why? I don’t think even LISA will work right unless it’s moving. If one of the laser projectors were moving and chasing the receiver while maintaining a fixed velocity and distance only then along with proper orientation to the GR waveform would you get a measurable signal. What is your concept of the shape and nature of a gravitational waveform? With the LIGO systems already built now or planned being in a stationary position or “NULL” state. It doesn’t seem that likely gravity waves are going to be easily detected. Stationary? The Earth is moving my friend, or hadn't you heard? |
#4
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LIGO test results
"Greg Neill" wrote in message ... Even though LIGO's engineering and components are state of the art. The way LIGO is set up seems way too simple and easy. In my opinion that if you want to get those laser beams to start flickering the LIGO apparatus should be torn from the ground and flung through space at a constant velocity. Why? Just a hunch, like I said the way it's set up seems too simple. It's as though a key factor is being overlooked. I don't think even LISA will work right unless it's moving. If one of the laser projectors were moving and chasing the receiver while maintaining a fixed velocity and distance only then along with proper orientation to the GR waveform would you get a measurable signal. What is your concept of the shape and nature of a gravitational waveform? I would say the kind of smooth rolling sinewave similar to the waves seen on a pond. Though as you know, GR waves cause variations in time and space. With the LIGO systems already built now or planned being in a stationary position or "NULL" state. It doesn't seem that likely gravity waves are going to be easily detected. Stationary? The Earth is moving my friend, or hadn't you heard? Yes but the Earth's rotation is churning up it's own gravitational waves and possibly interfering with trying to detect the ones from deep space. |
#5
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LIGO test results
"Ozmodium" wrote in message news:2dw6f.2151$HW5.721@trnddc04...
"Greg Neill" wrote in message ... Even though LIGO's engineering and components are state of the art. The way LIGO is set up seems way too simple and easy. In my opinion that if you want to get those laser beams to start flickering the LIGO apparatus should be torn from the ground and flung through space at a constant velocity. Why? Just a hunch, like I said the way it's set up seems too simple. It's as though a key factor is being overlooked. That's not an argument. Sometimes simplicity is key. I don't think even LISA will work right unless it's moving. If one of the laser projectors were moving and chasing the receiver while maintaining a fixed velocity and distance only then along with proper orientation to the GR waveform would you get a measurable signal. What is your concept of the shape and nature of a gravitational waveform? I would say the kind of smooth rolling sinewave similar to the waves seen on a pond. Though as you know, GR waves cause variations in time and space. Well, that would not be in accord with what the equations of General Relativity say. Gravitational waves will cause 3D distortions in what they pass through. With the LIGO systems already built now or planned being in a stationary position or "NULL" state. It doesn't seem that likely gravity waves are going to be easily detected. Stationary? The Earth is moving my friend, or hadn't you heard? Yes but the Earth's rotation is churning up it's own gravitational waves and possibly interfering with trying to detect the ones from deep space. The Earth's rotation won't cause gravitational waves. If it pulsed in an out, sure. Or if it could be vibrated back and forth at a great rate of speed, fine. But just spinning doesn't cut it for gravitational waves. Further, the gravitational radiation from the Earth's orbit of the Sun is far, far too puny to register; you need something really cataclysmic, like colliding black holes, to create a wave big enough to create a measurable signal with the present apparatus. |
#6
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LIGO test results
"George Dishman" wrote in message ... "Ozmodium" wrote in message news:A2b6f.158$Yn4.95@trnddc03... I was wondering concerning the ethical standards in today's world of scientific research if by chance LIGO does not detect gravity waves. What would chances be test results becoming skewed or even falsified? None. It is already known that this version of LIGO is unlikely to detect them, the next version "LIGO 2" will be fifteen times more sensitive and has a better chance. So it didn't work the first time around... I sure hope they know what they' re doing. Even though LIGO's engineering and components are state of the art. The way LIGO is set up seems way too simple and easy. In my opinion that if you want to get those laser beams to start flickering the LIGO apparatus should be torn from the ground and flung through space at a constant velocity. http://lisa.jpl.nasa.gov/ George |
#7
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LIGO test results
"Greg Neill" wrote in message ... "Ozmodium" wrote in message news:2dw6f.2151$HW5.721@trnddc04... "Greg Neill" wrote in message ... Even though LIGO's engineering and components are state of the art. The way LIGO is set up seems way too simple and easy. In my opinion that if you want to get those laser beams to start flickering the LIGO apparatus should be torn from the ground and flung through space at a constant velocity. Why? Just a hunch, like I said the way it's set up seems too simple. It's as though a key factor is being overlooked. That's not an argument. Sometimes simplicity is key. I don't think even LISA will work right unless it's moving. If one of the laser projectors were moving and chasing the receiver while maintaining a fixed velocity and distance only then along with proper orientation to the GR waveform would you get a measurable signal. What is your concept of the shape and nature of a gravitational waveform? I would say the kind of smooth rolling sinewave similar to the waves seen on a pond. Though as you know, GR waves cause variations in time and space. Well, that would not be in accord with what the equations of General Relativity say. Gravitational waves will cause 3D distortions in what they pass through. With the LIGO systems already built now or planned being in a stationary position or "NULL" state. It doesn't seem that likely gravity waves are going to be easily detected. Stationary? The Earth is moving my friend, or hadn't you heard? Yes but the Earth's rotation is churning up it's own gravitational waves and possibly interfering with trying to detect the ones from deep space. The Earth's rotation won't cause gravitational waves. If it pulsed in an out, sure. Or if it could be vibrated back and forth at a great rate of speed, fine. But just spinning doesn't cut it for gravitational waves. Further, the gravitational radiation from the Earth's orbit of the Sun is far, far too puny to register; you need something really cataclysmic, like colliding black holes, to create a wave big enough to create a measurable signal with the present apparatus. According to a report pertaining to data collected from Gravity Probe B The Earth is analogous to a basketball spinning in a large vat of molasses. As the Earth spins some of the molasses (or spacetime) is dragged along with it. So, it seems if there is some gravitational disturbance throwing out ripples in another part of the vat. When the waves finally arrive faint as they are, wouldn't the Earth's dragging and churning of the spacetime immediately surrounding the planet create a sort of barrier and interfere with the detection of far way signal? Like a ship at anchor compared to a ship moving at 20 knots. When the moving vessel impacts with a waveform you get a much more energetic reaction. The same goes for LIGO it should be placed in open space and moving. Sure LISA is going in space but it still won't be moving. |
#8
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LIGO test results
Dear Ozmodium:
"Ozmodium" wrote in message newsAD6f.6000$gF4.4771@trnddc07... .... According to a report pertaining to data collected from Gravity Probe B The Earth is analogous to a basketball spinning in a large vat of molasses. Frame dragging. As the Earth spins some of the molasses (or spacetime) is dragged along with it. So, it seems if there is some gravitational disturbance throwing out ripples in another part of the vat. When the waves finally arrive faint as they are, wouldn't the Earth's dragging and churning of the spacetime immediately surrounding the planet create a sort of barrier and interfere with the detection of far way signal? "Interfere" as in having an effect, yes. "Interfere" as in preventing detection, no. Consider waves (analogous to gravity waves) and vortices (analogous to frame dragging by the Earth). A wave can pass by/through/over a vortex. And it is possible the vortex could even amplify the effect of the wave (locally). David A. Smith |
#9
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LIGO test results
"Ozmodium" wrote in message news:rzD6f.5992$gF4.2604@trnddc07... "George Dishman" wrote in message ... "Ozmodium" wrote in message news:A2b6f.158$Yn4.95@trnddc03... I was wondering concerning the ethical standards in today's world of scientific research if by chance LIGO does not detect gravity waves. What would chances be test results becoming skewed or even falsified? None. It is already known that this version of LIGO is unlikely to detect them, the next version "LIGO 2" will be fifteen times more sensitive and has a better chance. So it didn't work the first time around... The "first time around" hasn't happened yet, they are still building it. I sure hope they know what they're doing. Of course. They know the sensitivity they are achieving and all the time they get null results, they are setting an upper limit on the level of signals that exist. It's like someone in a spaceship far from any galaxy building ever more sensitive telescopes. As long as they see nothing, they are placing an upper limit on the brightness, but until they see their first they can't be sure that stars even exist. George |
#10
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LIGO test results
"Ozmodium" wrote in message newsAD6f.6000$gF4.4771@trnddc07... "Greg Neill" wrote in message ... .... The Earth's rotation won't cause gravitational waves. If it pulsed in an out, sure. Or if it could be vibrated back and forth at a great rate of speed, fine. But just spinning doesn't cut it for gravitational waves. Further, the gravitational radiation from the Earth's orbit of the Sun is far, far too puny to register; you need something really cataclysmic, like colliding black holes, to create a wave big enough to create a measurable signal with the present apparatus. According to a report pertaining to data collected from Gravity Probe B The Earth is analogous to a basketball spinning in a large vat of molasses. As the Earth spins some of the molasses (or spacetime) is dragged along with it. A slow smooth drag. So, it seems if there is some gravitational disturbance throwing out ripples in another part of the vat. When the waves finally arrive faint as they are, wouldn't the Earth's dragging and churning of the spacetime immediately surrounding the planet create a sort of barrier and interfere with the detection of far way signal? Throw a pebbles in a stream near a weir. As the ripples go over the top they will be deflected slightly by the flow but they are still present. Like a ship at anchor compared to a ship moving at 20 knots. When the moving vessel impacts with a waveform you get a much more energetic reaction. The same goes for LIGO it should be placed in open space and moving. Sure LISA is going in space but it still won't be moving. If it wasn't moving, it wouldn't be in orbit, and the solar system is moving round the centre of the galaxy. However, that is beside the point, the gravitational waves are moving at the speed of light so any extra energy from any speed we could give the detector would be completely negligible. If the gravitational waves were moving at 20 knots, you would have a point. George |
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