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This is the most important CATS post ever!



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 6th 03, 08:27 PM
Andrew Nowicki
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Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Vincent Cate wrote:
VC I think it is easy to get a reusable sub-orbital
VC rocket going much faster than 2.5 km/sec. I think
VC you are putting too much work on the tether and
VC not enough on the rocket.

This system of space transportation is much simpler
when the sounding rocket lifts the payload to the
altitude of 100 km and accelerates it to a horizontal
velocity of 3.4 km/s, which matches the tip velocity
of the bolo. When the bolo hurls the payload forward,
payload velocity relative to the Earth is 12 km/s,
which is more than the Earth escape velocity. An ion
thruster may be used to guide the payload to its final
destination and change its velocity.

There is no sling in the simplified system; only one
lunavator, one terrestrial bolo, and one sounding
rocket.
  #12  
Old December 6th 03, 08:27 PM
Andrew Nowicki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Vincent Cate wrote:
VC I think it is easy to get a reusable sub-orbital
VC rocket going much faster than 2.5 km/sec. I think
VC you are putting too much work on the tether and
VC not enough on the rocket.

This system of space transportation is much simpler
when the sounding rocket lifts the payload to the
altitude of 100 km and accelerates it to a horizontal
velocity of 3.4 km/s, which matches the tip velocity
of the bolo. When the bolo hurls the payload forward,
payload velocity relative to the Earth is 12 km/s,
which is more than the Earth escape velocity. An ion
thruster may be used to guide the payload to its final
destination and change its velocity.

There is no sling in the simplified system; only one
lunavator, one terrestrial bolo, and one sounding
rocket.
  #13  
Old December 8th 03, 09:36 PM
Andrew Nowicki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Vincent Cate wrote:
VC I think it is easy to get a reusable sub-orbital
VC rocket going much faster than 2.5 km/sec. I think
VC you are putting too much work on the tether and
VC not enough on the rocket.

This system of space transportation is much simpler
when the sounding rocket lifts the payload to the
altitude of 100 km and accelerates it to a horizontal
velocity of 3.4 km/s, which matches the tip velocity
of the bolo. When the bolo hurls the payload forward,
payload velocity relative to the Earth is 12 km/s,
which is more than the Earth escape velocity. A Hall
thruster may be used to guide the payload to its final
destination and change its velocity.

There is no sling in the simplified system; only one
lunavator, one terrestrial bolo, and one sounding
rocket.
  #14  
Old December 8th 03, 09:36 PM
Andrew Nowicki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Vincent Cate wrote:
VC I think it is easy to get a reusable sub-orbital
VC rocket going much faster than 2.5 km/sec. I think
VC you are putting too much work on the tether and
VC not enough on the rocket.

This system of space transportation is much simpler
when the sounding rocket lifts the payload to the
altitude of 100 km and accelerates it to a horizontal
velocity of 3.4 km/s, which matches the tip velocity
of the bolo. When the bolo hurls the payload forward,
payload velocity relative to the Earth is 12 km/s,
which is more than the Earth escape velocity. A Hall
thruster may be used to guide the payload to its final
destination and change its velocity.

There is no sling in the simplified system; only one
lunavator, one terrestrial bolo, and one sounding
rocket.
  #15  
Old December 11th 03, 12:23 AM
Alex Terrell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

What orbital inclination would the Earth orbiting rotovator be in?

If it's in an equatorial orbit, then except at the equinoxes, the
payloads will nt be in line with the moon.

In theory it could be orbiting the Earth in the same plane as the
moon. This means that:
1. The rendezvous latitude would change throughout the year, shifting
between the two tropics. This would necessitate and air launch of the
rendez-vous cargo.
2. The orbit is not stable. Henry Spencer's view in an earlier post
was that it would be difficult, though perhaps not impossible, to
maintain this orbit for the rotovator.

Note also that the rotovator is not good for reaching low Earth
orbits. With something like this in place High Earth Orbit would
rapidly become the place to be.
  #16  
Old December 11th 03, 12:23 AM
Alex Terrell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

What orbital inclination would the Earth orbiting rotovator be in?

If it's in an equatorial orbit, then except at the equinoxes, the
payloads will nt be in line with the moon.

In theory it could be orbiting the Earth in the same plane as the
moon. This means that:
1. The rendezvous latitude would change throughout the year, shifting
between the two tropics. This would necessitate and air launch of the
rendez-vous cargo.
2. The orbit is not stable. Henry Spencer's view in an earlier post
was that it would be difficult, though perhaps not impossible, to
maintain this orbit for the rotovator.

Note also that the rotovator is not good for reaching low Earth
orbits. With something like this in place High Earth Orbit would
rapidly become the place to be.
  #17  
Old December 11th 03, 05:24 PM
Andrew Nowicki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Alex Terrell wrote:
AT What orbital inclination would the Earth orbiting
AT rotovator be in?

Lunar orbit. Actually, it is a bolo.

AT In theory it could be orbiting the Earth in the same
AT plane as the moon. This means that:
AT 1. The rendezvous latitude would change throughout the
AT year, shifting between the two tropics. This would
AT necessitate and air launch of the rendez-vous cargo.

I prefer a ship as the launching platform. There will be at
least 8 launches of the sounding rocket a day. It would be
difficult to launch a full size rocket launcher from a
bobbing ship, but launching the small sounding rocket
seems feasible.

AT 2. The orbit is not stable. Henry Spencer's view in
AT an earlier post was that it would be difficult, though
AT perhaps not impossible, to maintain this orbit for the
AT rotovator.

I can't find the post; perhaps my news server is at fault.
The only two stable terrestrial orbits are polar and
equatorial orbits. Every other orbit undergoes precession
due to the pear shape (geoid) of the Earth. This is not a
big problem because the annual mass of Moon dust handled
by the bolo is much larger than the mass of the bolo. If
the bolo is tilted slightly so that it throws the sacks
off the lunar plane, the precession problem is solved.

AT Note also that the rotovator is not good for reaching
AT low Earth orbits. With something like this in place
AT High Earth Orbit would rapidly become the place to be.

I had the same knee jerk reaction to this space
transportation system. It is ideal for moving cargo
between the Moon and the Earth. (Does the not-so-smart
president follow our conversation?) The only practical
way to bring the cargo from the Earth to the orbit of
the bolo is to have a small electric cart (manipulator?)
riding on the bolo and pulling the cargo to the center
of bolo's mass. The good news is that direct current
motors using Samarium Cobalt magnets and have high
power-to-weight ratio: about 7 watts per gram not
counting the gearbox. This means that the cart would be
small. Another good news is that the bolo with build
in aluminum wires is excellent round-the-clock source
of electric power due to the electrodynamic tether
effect (interaction with terrestrial magnetic field).
The used up electric power is replenished by the orbital
energy of the lunar sacks filled with Moon dust.

The full description and lunavator spacecraft picture are at:
http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/S...tor_bolo_relay
mirror site:
http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/SPBI1...tor_bolo_relay
  #18  
Old December 11th 03, 05:24 PM
Andrew Nowicki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Alex Terrell wrote:
AT What orbital inclination would the Earth orbiting
AT rotovator be in?

Lunar orbit. Actually, it is a bolo.

AT In theory it could be orbiting the Earth in the same
AT plane as the moon. This means that:
AT 1. The rendezvous latitude would change throughout the
AT year, shifting between the two tropics. This would
AT necessitate and air launch of the rendez-vous cargo.

I prefer a ship as the launching platform. There will be at
least 8 launches of the sounding rocket a day. It would be
difficult to launch a full size rocket launcher from a
bobbing ship, but launching the small sounding rocket
seems feasible.

AT 2. The orbit is not stable. Henry Spencer's view in
AT an earlier post was that it would be difficult, though
AT perhaps not impossible, to maintain this orbit for the
AT rotovator.

I can't find the post; perhaps my news server is at fault.
The only two stable terrestrial orbits are polar and
equatorial orbits. Every other orbit undergoes precession
due to the pear shape (geoid) of the Earth. This is not a
big problem because the annual mass of Moon dust handled
by the bolo is much larger than the mass of the bolo. If
the bolo is tilted slightly so that it throws the sacks
off the lunar plane, the precession problem is solved.

AT Note also that the rotovator is not good for reaching
AT low Earth orbits. With something like this in place
AT High Earth Orbit would rapidly become the place to be.

I had the same knee jerk reaction to this space
transportation system. It is ideal for moving cargo
between the Moon and the Earth. (Does the not-so-smart
president follow our conversation?) The only practical
way to bring the cargo from the Earth to the orbit of
the bolo is to have a small electric cart (manipulator?)
riding on the bolo and pulling the cargo to the center
of bolo's mass. The good news is that direct current
motors using Samarium Cobalt magnets and have high
power-to-weight ratio: about 7 watts per gram not
counting the gearbox. This means that the cart would be
small. Another good news is that the bolo with build
in aluminum wires is excellent round-the-clock source
of electric power due to the electrodynamic tether
effect (interaction with terrestrial magnetic field).
The used up electric power is replenished by the orbital
energy of the lunar sacks filled with Moon dust.

The full description and lunavator spacecraft picture are at:
http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/S...tor_bolo_relay
mirror site:
http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/SPBI1...tor_bolo_relay
  #19  
Old December 12th 03, 11:03 AM
Alex Terrell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Andrew Nowicki wrote in message ...
Alex Terrell wrote:
AT What orbital inclination would the Earth orbiting
AT rotovator be in?

Lunar orbit. Actually, it is a bolo.

AT In theory it could be orbiting the Earth in the same
AT plane as the moon. This means that:
AT 1. The rendezvous latitude would change throughout the
AT year, shifting between the two tropics. This would
AT necessitate and air launch of the rendez-vous cargo.

I prefer a ship as the launching platform. There will be at
least 8 launches of the sounding rocket a day. It would be
difficult to launch a full size rocket launcher from a
bobbing ship, but launching the small sounding rocket
seems feasible.

Good idea. That would work, as long as the rendez-vous point is over
the ocean, and the bolo rotation period is set to provide an access
point over the ship.


AT 2. The orbit is not stable. Henry Spencer's view in
AT an earlier post was that it would be difficult, though
AT perhaps not impossible, to maintain this orbit for the
AT rotovator.

I can't find the post; perhaps my news server is at fault.


http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl...%3D20%26sa%3DN
(last post was 22 Sep, in tech)


The only two stable terrestrial orbits are polar and
equatorial orbits. Every other orbit undergoes precession
due to the pear shape (geoid) of the Earth. This is not a
big problem because the annual mass of Moon dust handled
by the bolo is much larger than the mass of the bolo. If
the bolo is tilted slightly so that it throws the sacks
off the lunar plane, the precession problem is solved.

So you actually use the mass to stabilise it. This will have some
impact on the trajectory of the mass, but should be workable.


AT Note also that the rotovator is not good for reaching
AT low Earth orbits. With something like this in place
AT High Earth Orbit would rapidly become the place to be.

I had the same knee jerk reaction to this space
transportation system. It is ideal for moving cargo
between the Moon and the Earth. (Does the not-so-smart
president follow our conversation?)


I think your President's intellect is one of the most under estimated
quantities around.

The only practical
way to bring the cargo from the Earth to the orbit of
the bolo is to have a small electric cart (manipulator?)
riding on the bolo and pulling the cargo to the center
of bolo's mass. The good news is that direct current
motors using Samarium Cobalt magnets and have high
power-to-weight ratio: about 7 watts per gram not
counting the gearbox. This means that the cart would be
small. Another good news is that the bolo with build
in aluminum wires is excellent round-the-clock source
of electric power due to the electrodynamic tether
effect (interaction with terrestrial magnetic field).
The used up electric power is replenished by the orbital
energy of the lunar sacks filled with Moon dust.

My thinking is that with any tether system, why not just abandon LEO.
It's too full of debris for settlement anyway. Large scale
construction would happen in a Lunar Orbit, and SSP stations would be
brought down to GEO using high performance electric propulsion.


The full description and lunavator spacecraft picture are at:
http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/S...tor_bolo_relay
mirror site:
http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/SPBI1...tor_bolo_relay

  #20  
Old December 12th 03, 11:03 AM
Alex Terrell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default This is the most important CATS post ever!

Andrew Nowicki wrote in message ...
Alex Terrell wrote:
AT What orbital inclination would the Earth orbiting
AT rotovator be in?

Lunar orbit. Actually, it is a bolo.

AT In theory it could be orbiting the Earth in the same
AT plane as the moon. This means that:
AT 1. The rendezvous latitude would change throughout the
AT year, shifting between the two tropics. This would
AT necessitate and air launch of the rendez-vous cargo.

I prefer a ship as the launching platform. There will be at
least 8 launches of the sounding rocket a day. It would be
difficult to launch a full size rocket launcher from a
bobbing ship, but launching the small sounding rocket
seems feasible.

Good idea. That would work, as long as the rendez-vous point is over
the ocean, and the bolo rotation period is set to provide an access
point over the ship.


AT 2. The orbit is not stable. Henry Spencer's view in
AT an earlier post was that it would be difficult, though
AT perhaps not impossible, to maintain this orbit for the
AT rotovator.

I can't find the post; perhaps my news server is at fault.


http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl...%3D20%26sa%3DN
(last post was 22 Sep, in tech)


The only two stable terrestrial orbits are polar and
equatorial orbits. Every other orbit undergoes precession
due to the pear shape (geoid) of the Earth. This is not a
big problem because the annual mass of Moon dust handled
by the bolo is much larger than the mass of the bolo. If
the bolo is tilted slightly so that it throws the sacks
off the lunar plane, the precession problem is solved.

So you actually use the mass to stabilise it. This will have some
impact on the trajectory of the mass, but should be workable.


AT Note also that the rotovator is not good for reaching
AT low Earth orbits. With something like this in place
AT High Earth Orbit would rapidly become the place to be.

I had the same knee jerk reaction to this space
transportation system. It is ideal for moving cargo
between the Moon and the Earth. (Does the not-so-smart
president follow our conversation?)


I think your President's intellect is one of the most under estimated
quantities around.

The only practical
way to bring the cargo from the Earth to the orbit of
the bolo is to have a small electric cart (manipulator?)
riding on the bolo and pulling the cargo to the center
of bolo's mass. The good news is that direct current
motors using Samarium Cobalt magnets and have high
power-to-weight ratio: about 7 watts per gram not
counting the gearbox. This means that the cart would be
small. Another good news is that the bolo with build
in aluminum wires is excellent round-the-clock source
of electric power due to the electrodynamic tether
effect (interaction with terrestrial magnetic field).
The used up electric power is replenished by the orbital
energy of the lunar sacks filled with Moon dust.

My thinking is that with any tether system, why not just abandon LEO.
It's too full of debris for settlement anyway. Large scale
construction would happen in a Lunar Orbit, and SSP stations would be
brought down to GEO using high performance electric propulsion.


The full description and lunavator spacecraft picture are at:
http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/S...tor_bolo_relay
mirror site:
http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/SPBI1...tor_bolo_relay

 




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