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Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles



 
 
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  #51  
Old June 30th 09, 11:18 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Derek Lyons
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Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles

Pat Flannery wrote:



dott.Piergiorgio wrote:

in an Italy vs. Yugoslavia scenario, the Tyrrhenian Sea is rather safe
from the Italian perspective, because yugoslavian ships/boat must pass
two rather difficult choke points, the boats against top-notch ASW
capabilities.


Wouldn't that bring the spent first stages down on Italian soil though?


Where the spent stages come down depends on where the launch areas
are.

D.
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-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #52  
Old June 30th 09, 11:20 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Derek Lyons
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Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
Pat Flannery wrote:

Which brings up a interesting point...would there have been any reason
to put the missiles at sea?


Because it is fair to middlin' hard to find things at sea, even in the
Mediterranean lake.


This came up at work a few months ago while discussing Somali pirates.
People were convinced it was trivial to find their ships. (That's "targets"
for you submariners out there. :-)


Few people who haven't been to sea comprehend how big the ocean is.
Remember the bit in HFRO where Jonesy calculates the Atlantic ocean is
thirty times wider than his sonar footprint?

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #53  
Old June 30th 09, 11:59 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Iain Rae
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Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles

Pat Flannery wrote:

snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...United_Kingdom
"Currently, British Trident commanders are able to launch their missiles
without authorisation, whereas their American colleagues cannot."


Oh, that makes me feel comfortable...just like the bicycle locks used to
arm British nuclear weapons:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/7097101.stm


Even better, they look like the bicycle locks that you could open with a
bic biro.


Our bombs, I'll have you know, took both a PAL...and a big screwdriver. :-D

Pat

  #54  
Old July 1st 09, 12:18 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Rick Jones[_3_]
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Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles

In sci.space.history Pat Flannery wrote:
Oh, that makes me feel comfortable...just like the bicycle locks
used to arm British nuclear weapons:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/7097101.stm


Something in that article caught my eye:

Inside are the arming switch and a series of dials which you can
turn with an Allen key to select high yield or low yield, air
burst or groundburst and other parameters.

Yield selection?!? How would that work?

rkck jones
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  #55  
Old July 1st 09, 12:27 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
vaughn
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Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles


"Rick Jones" wrote in message
...
..

Yield selection?!? How would that work?


Just Google the term "Dial a yield" or:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_yield

Vaughn


  #56  
Old July 1st 09, 03:11 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles



Derek Lyons wrote:
Railroad cars were essentially proposed for each generation of USAF
solid fueled strategic missiles.


Did Midgetman ever have one? The only version I ever saw had it riding
around in a blast-hardened truck trailer.

Pat
  #57  
Old July 1st 09, 03:31 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles



Derek Lyons wrote:
You assume incorrectly. The USAF kept their guidance systems spun up
and aligned while alert, SLBM guidance systems however were not
powered up until we began launch preparations.


I always wondered about that...Minutemen were ready to go 24/7 with
their gyros spun up constantly.
But the SLBMs needed to spin their gyros up and align them prior to
launch...was that due to wear on the gyros from the sub pitching around
and changing alignment versus the stability of a fixed silo?
Couldn't they have gotten around that via floating the entire gyro
system in a freon-supported sphere, like on MX?
You would have thought they would have done that by the time Trident D-5
entered service.
Another way around the problem would be to employ constantly-running
laser ring gyros, and although CEP might have increased, this would
remove pretty much all the moving parts from the system, and allowed
almost instantaneous alignment of the guidance system prior to launch.
Final "tuning" of the trajectory could be done via a stellar alignment
system on the upper stage/warhead bus, like the Soviets used on their
later ICBMs/SLBMs.

Pat

  #58  
Old July 1st 09, 03:51 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles



Derek Lyons wrote:

Where the spent stages come down depends on where the launch areas are.


If they are in the Tyrrhenian Sea and shooting at Yugoslavia, I think
there's a pretty good chance that the first stage is going to come down
on the Italian peninsula.
Mind you, that's probably going to be considered a pretty benign thing
compared to a lot of other things that might be falling out of the sky
onto Italy.

P.S. My dad served with the 460th bomb group (Black Panthers) in Italy
during WW II, and I have the dread chrome-steel winged erection bracelet
charm from Pompeii sitting in front of me as I write this. :-D

Pat
  #59  
Old July 1st 09, 04:08 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
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Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...

Few people who haven't been to sea comprehend how big the ocean is.
Remember the bit in HFRO where Jonesy calculates the Atlantic ocean is
thirty times wider than his sonar footprint?


I don't recall that. They seemed to think that it was just a matter of
looking at a satellite photo and going from there.

I didn't want to get into a debate regarding actual coverage by satellites,
finding a dot (or if you're lucky a wake) out of so many, etc. And radar
isn't as magical as some would like to think.


--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

  #60  
Old July 1st 09, 04:31 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles



Derek Lyons wrote:
Few people who haven't been to sea comprehend how big the ocean is.
Remember the bit in HFRO where Jonesy calculates the Atlantic ocean is
thirty times wider than his sonar footprint?


I always liked the pre-radar assesment from WWI were someone went up to
a giant map of the world's oceans at the British Admiralty, and stuck a
thumbtack into it...stating: "That's how far any one of our ships can
see in daylight and clear weather."
If things keep up as bad as they are near Somalia, it might be a very
good place to put a comprehensive SOSUS array at.
Provided they don't all start using dhows, that should catch most of them.
If they do start using dhows, then it's time to develop chain shot for
our modern naval guns so we can de-mast them. :-D
Since the thread has now drifted into modern-day pirates, these things
are really strange and interesting:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/...ilent-run.html
Now _where_ would they have gotten a bridge design concept like that
from?: http://xirdal.lmu.de/xirdalium/xpix/...s_gonzales.png
I think it's about time the DEA pays a little visit to Vulcania. ;-)

Pat
 




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