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NASA orbit simulation software



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 14th 09, 03:20 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Joćo Gomes
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Posts: 5
Default NASA orbit simulation software

Hey..

Does anyone knows what programs does NASA use to simulate and predict
the orbit of a spacecraft? and for simulate the reentry phase of the
shutle and from now on orion?

  #2  
Old May 15th 09, 12:08 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Joćo Gomes
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Default NASA orbit simulation software

On May 14, 10:39 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2009 10:20:18 EDT, in sci.space.tech Joćo Gomes

wrote:
Hey..


Does anyone knows what programs does NASA use to simulate and predict
the orbit of a spacecraft? and for simulate the reentry phase of the
shutle and from now on orion?


I believe that would be POST2:

https://post2.larc.nasa.gov/


Hey, thanks...

but this link doesn't work.. can it be because i'm trying to open it
from portugal?

  #3  
Old May 16th 09, 01:19 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Jorge R. Frank
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Posts: 2,089
Default NASA orbit simulation software

Joćo Gomes wrote:
Hey..

Does anyone knows what programs does NASA use to simulate and predict
the orbit of a spacecraft? and for simulate the reentry phase of the
shutle and from now on orion?


There's no one answer to the first question; every NASA center has its
own trajectory analysis software. NASA does use POST quite a bit but it
is not the only program used.

Regarding the second question, NASA/JSC uses the Descent Design System
(DDS) and Spacecraft Trajectory and Mission Planning Simulator (STAMPS)
to simulate space shuttle entries.

  #4  
Old May 16th 09, 01:19 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Joćo Gomes
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Posts: 5
Default NASA orbit simulation software

On May 16, 3:00 am, wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2009 07:08:53 EDT, in sci.space.tech Joćo Gomes



wrote:
On May 14, 10:39 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2009 10:20:18 EDT, in sci.space.tech Joćo Gomes


wrote:
Hey..


Does anyone knows what programs does NASA use to simulate and predict
the orbit of a spacecraft? and for simulate the reentry phase of the
shutle and from now on orion?


I believe that would be POST2:


https://post2.larc.nasa.gov/


Hey, thanks...


but this link doesn't work.. can it be because i'm trying to open it
from portugal?


Could be. The current program is only available to US govt and contractor
s
working on govt projects.


And is there any cance to get the program? or a similar one?

  #5  
Old May 16th 09, 10:07 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Joćo Gomes
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Posts: 5
Default NASA orbit simulation software

On May 16, 1:19 pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
Joćo Gomes wrote:
Hey..


Does anyone knows what programs does NASA use to simulate and predict
the orbit of a spacecraft? and for simulate the reentry phase of the
shutle and from now on orion?


There's no one answer to the first question; every NASA center has its
own trajectory analysis software. NASA does use POST quite a bit but it
is not the only program used.

Regarding the second question, NASA/JSC uses the Descent Design System
(DDS) and Spacecraft Trajectory and Mission Planning Simulator (STAMPS)
to simulate space shuttle entries.


And STAMPS can be used with different vehicles?

Is there any change to purchase or to have that software for a project
my university is developing?

  #6  
Old May 17th 09, 02:10 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default NASA orbit simulation software



Jorge R. Frank wrote:

There's no one answer to the first question; every NASA center has its
own trajectory analysis software. NASA does use POST quite a bit but
it is not the only program used.


Boy, _that_ could never lead to a problem, could it? :-D
You read that, and the Mars Polar Orbiter showing up a bit low in its
approach to the planet's atmosphere isn't that big of a surprise, is it?
Talk about potential misunderstandings cropping up as several separate
computer programs try to figure out what something is supposed to do in
detail, and all the space centers try to compare the math from _their_
individual computer program simulations.
One computer program has got to be the most accurate in figuring this
all out, and all NASA centers should use that one, so at least they
could all be on the same page at the same time.
You read something like you just wrote, and frankly you couldn't even
make that sh*t up in a Monty Python sketch.

Pat

* i

  #7  
Old May 17th 09, 02:11 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default NASA orbit simulation software



OM wrote:

....Is there a specific reason for this, such as a NIH prejudice,
God/Yahweh/Roddenberry forbid? Or is it a case as with different State
agencies, some of which use Word, others still use WordPerfect 20
years after it was clusterfracked?


Boy, you got me on that one also.
Jorge seems to think this is all rational and normal somehow.
I guess after you work for NASA for enough years, just about anything
and everything would seem "rational" and "normal", or at least "SNAFU". ;-)
Now, if they all standardized on "Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space" for
figuring these things out, a lot of confusion could be removed between
the various space centers. :-)

Pat

  #8  
Old May 17th 09, 05:07 PM posted to sci.space.tech
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default NASA orbit simulation software

Pat Flannery wrote:
:
:One computer program has got to be the most accurate in figuring this
:all out, ...
:

Not necessarily, Pat. There are lots and lots of different factors
involved and different simulations may be better in different areas,
so that sometimes one simulation works better and sometimes another
does.

So there may be no 'best' one and cherry picking from each one to make
a 'best' one is not a simple task.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

  #9  
Old May 18th 09, 02:13 AM posted to sci.space.tech
Mike Beede
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Posts: 2
Default NASA orbit simulation software

In article
tatelephone,
Pat Flannery wrote:

Talk about potential misunderstandings cropping up as several separate
computer programs try to figure out what something is supposed to do in
detail, and all the space centers try to compare the math from _their_
individual computer program simulations.
One computer program has got to be the most accurate in figuring this
all out, and all NASA centers should use that one, so at least they
could all be on the same page at the same time.


On problem with solving something like this is that you have to
test the results to see if they're correct. A good--though
expensive--way to do that is to have multiple versions of
the program each developed independently, and compare their
results. If you solve for the trajectory you want and get
three different answers, then you know you have a problem
before you wreck an expensive piece of hardware.

This is similar to the old "add the numbers until you get the
same answer twice" algorithm we're familiar with from grade
school, except a given program will always (hopefully) get
the same answer given the same inputs, so you need different
programs.

I see another poster mentioned that different programs are good
at different problems. That seems reasonable too.

Mike Beede

  #10  
Old May 18th 09, 02:13 AM posted to sci.space.tech
Ken S. Tucker
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Posts: 740
Default NASA orbit simulation software

On May 17, 9:07 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:

:
:One computer program has got to be the most accurate in figuring this
:all out, ...
:

Not necessarily, Pat. There are lots and lots of different factors
involved and different simulations may be better in different areas,
so that sometimes one simulation works better and sometimes another
does.

So there may be no 'best' one and cherry picking from each one to make
a 'best' one is not a simple task.


Pat I think Fred's right, in my limited experience with sims.
One would need 100,000's of different variables in one overall
program.

Just as a simplistic overview...
1) Rocket pre-launch soft/ware.
2) Rocket flight s/w, earth relative navigation.
3) Orbital s/w, earth relative with solar lunar tidals.
4) If you want to extract a LM, that's a specialized
s/w sub-routine.
5) Translunar injection, to lunar orbit, is celestrial
navigation.
6) Softlanding on the moon, is lunar relative, with
thruster control s/w.

Most of those routines need to pass data to other
routines, so they end up being sub-routines, so
in that sense it could be considered as one big s/w
program.
A problem when writing s/w is remembering what
the variables stand for, for example, Pitch. Yaw,
Roll, depend on the applicable spacecraft, so
once (1) and (2) are done, we don't need those
variables in (3), nor do we need those routines.
S/w systems design and management needs to be
compartmentalized into Block Diagrams, then in
each Block is a Block Diagram and so forth.
Regards
Ken

 




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