Impact craters as habitats for life

http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray,

The older I get, the more I wonder if life started on Earth; that it
wasn't seeded here directly or otherwise. Moreover, as time goes by, I
really begin to wonder if the question is meaningful beyond that of
curiosity.

As far as life is concerned; it seems to be very early millenea, ...
Our understanding of what life means, what it represents, how it works
in the extended sense is sorely lacking.

What is life ?

No satisfactory answers for me.
The background concepts which would provide a language to deal with
this question seem to be lacking.


Life is all about ' information ' and it's usage.
Shannon & Weaver, as good physical scientists beat the biologists to
the punch on this one !

... Most unfortunate, really. It quite like the situation with
NASA's next generation of CSV; the expectation of what ought to be is
strongly influenced by what already exists in the form of the space
shuttle ... The proverbial ' wheel ' has been invented.

What is life ?
Stupid question! ... why re-invent the wheel ?

Hmmm ...

RL

"Raving Loonie" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ray Vingnutte wrote:
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray,

The older I get, the more I wonder if life started on Earth; that it
wasn't seeded here directly or otherwise. Moreover, as time goes by, I
really begin to wonder if the question is meaningful beyond that of
curiosity.

I saw a Star Trek Voyager where the local aliens where horrified at the
thought that they may have been seeded from another planet. It seemed like
the way it would really be.

I can imagine. If I thought that this Earth was seeded by
extraterrestrials, I would not feel as lucky or proud to be a human being.
Because I would not truly
be a human being in that case. But I would be an Antarean, or a Vegan,
or a Spican.

Mark Earnest wrote:
"Raving Loonie" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ray Vingnutte wrote:
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray,

The older I get, the more I wonder if life started on Earth; that it
wasn't seeded here directly or otherwise. Moreover, as time goes by, I
really begin to wonder if the question is meaningful beyond that of
curiosity.

I saw a Star Trek Voyager where the local aliens where horrified at the
thought that they may have been seeded from another planet. It seemed like
the way it would really be.

I can imagine. If I thought that this Earth was seeded by
extraterrestrials, I would not feel as lucky or proud to be a human being.
Because I would not truly
be a human being in that case. But I would be an Antarean, or a Vegan,
or a Spican.

Interesting thought. ;~) Now ...

What happens *if* SETI or whatever discovers other life out there?

... Do you say to yourself " Oops, there goes the neighborhood " ?

RL

P.S. My quick guess is that we are such an immense abberation with
such a rapid potential for evolutionary developement that we are a
one-of-a-kind in this neck-of-the-universe ! ... This need not address
how it all started.

On 8 Aug 2005 21:14:27 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray,

The older I get, the more I wonder if life started on Earth; that it
wasn't seeded here directly or otherwise. Moreover, as time goes by, I
really begin to wonder if the question is meaningful beyond that of
curiosity.

As far as life is concerned; it seems to be very early millenea, ...
Our understanding of what life means, what it represents, how it works
in the extended sense is sorely lacking.

What is life ?

No satisfactory answers for me.
The background concepts which would provide a language to deal with
this question seem to be lacking.


Life is all about ' information ' and it's usage.
Shannon & Weaver, as good physical scientists beat the biologists to
the punch on this one !

... Most unfortunate, really. It quite like the situation with
NASA's next generation of CSV; the expectation of what ought to be is
strongly influenced by what already exists in the form of the space
shuttle ... The proverbial ' wheel ' has been invented.

What is life ?
Stupid question! ... why re-invent the wheel ?

Hmmm ...

RL

I have long thought life(whatever that is or means) is far more likely
to be all over the place rather than just here on this planet. When you
think that all the ingredients for it are all over the place in the
universe then it becomes inconceivable that this planet is the only
place where it's happened. Whether this needs a seeding or not I'm not
sure, probably not as under the right conditions life would start up but
seeding of some sort may happen too. I also think that if or when we
find signs of current or past life say on Mars then it will probably be
not to dissimilar to the sort of life we see on Earth, afterall we all
came from the same ingredients so I would think it unlikely that say
life on Mars is going to be totally new and different in make up.

So in short I think life is very probably all over the place,
everywhere. But how much of it evolves to produce intelligent life is
another matter ;-)

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 8 Aug 2005 21:14:27 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray,

The older I get, the more I wonder if life started on Earth; that it
wasn't seeded here directly or otherwise. Moreover, as time goes by, I
really begin to wonder if the question is meaningful beyond that of
curiosity.

As far as life is concerned; it seems to be very early millenea, ...
Our understanding of what life means, what it represents, how it works
in the extended sense is sorely lacking.

What is life ?

No satisfactory answers for me.
The background concepts which would provide a language to deal with
this question seem to be lacking.


Life is all about ' information ' and it's usage.
Shannon & Weaver, as good physical scientists beat the biologists to
the punch on this one !

... Most unfortunate, really. It quite like the situation with
NASA's next generation of CSV; the expectation of what ought to be is
strongly influenced by what already exists in the form of the space
shuttle ... The proverbial ' wheel ' has been invented.

What is life ?
Stupid question! ... why re-invent the wheel ?

Hmmm ...

RL

I have long thought life(whatever that is or means) is far more likely
to be all over the place rather than just here on this planet. When you
think that all the ingredients for it are all over the place in the
universe then it becomes inconceivable that this planet is the only
place where it's happened. Whether this needs a seeding or not I'm not
sure, probably not as under the right conditions life would start up but
seeding of some sort may happen too. I also think that if or when we
find signs of current or past life say on Mars then it will probably be
not to dissimilar to the sort of life we see on Earth, afterall we all
came from the same ingredients so I would think it unlikely that say
life on Mars is going to be totally new and different in make up.

So in short I think life is very probably all over the place,
everywhere. But how much of it evolves to produce intelligent life is
another matter ;-)









Ray,
Although, I am reticent to admit it ...

" Bush weighs into evolution debate "

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4136690.stm

It would seem that I am on the right side of this debate.



yuk

RL

On 9 Aug 2005 19:25:52 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 8 Aug 2005 21:14:27 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray,

The older I get, the more I wonder if life started on Earth;
that it
wasn't seeded here directly or otherwise. Moreover, as time goes
by, I really begin to wonder if the question is meaningful beyond
that of curiosity.

As far as life is concerned; it seems to be very early millenea,
... Our understanding of what life means, what it represents, how
it works in the extended sense is sorely lacking.

What is life ?

No satisfactory answers for me.
The background concepts which would provide a language to deal
with this question seem to be lacking.


Life is all about ' information ' and it's usage.
Shannon & Weaver, as good physical scientists beat the biologists
to the punch on this one !

... Most unfortunate, really. It quite like the situation with
NASA's next generation of CSV; the expectation of what ought to be
is strongly influenced by what already exists in the form of the
space shuttle ... The proverbial ' wheel ' has been invented.

What is life ?
Stupid question! ... why re-invent the wheel ?

Hmmm ...

RL

I have long thought life(whatever that is or means) is far more
likely to be all over the place rather than just here on this
planet. When you think that all the ingredients for it are all over
the place in the universe then it becomes inconceivable that this
planet is the only place where it's happened. Whether this needs a
seeding or not I'm not sure, probably not as under the right
conditions life would start up but seeding of some sort may happen
too. I also think that if or when we find signs of current or past
life say on Mars then it will probably be not to dissimilar to the
sort of life we see on Earth, afterall we all came from the same
ingredients so I would think it unlikely that say life on Mars is
going to be totally new and different in make up.

So in short I think life is very probably all over the place,
everywhere. But how much of it evolves to produce intelligent life
is another matter ;-)









Ray,
Although, I am reticent to admit it ...

" Bush weighs into evolution debate "

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4136690.stm

It would seem that I am on the right side of this debate.



yuk

RL


There were many posts in here a while back mostly between me and Nighbat
about the universe being a simulation, I think you were here around
the time, which when you think of it sounds daft, until you think about
it a lot and slowly it begins to make some kind of sense. You can look
up Dr. Nick Bostrom or go here

http://www.simulation-argument.com/

His home page is here

http://www.nickbostrom.com/


Not the kind of intelligent design Bush would seem to want taught.
Though I think I can understand why religion could be drawn to it, I
mean it makes far more sense than a God figure they have touted for so
long, though I expect they will distort even that for their own ends.

For me religion is just like a business venture, they are only after
your money, always were it seems and like any company selling it's wares
all kinds of variations on a theme will flourish if it draws in the
punters. I expect Blair will jump on it soon now, only difference there
is Blair actually thinks he is God and can do no wrong ;-)

Hi Ray Let me save you some time in getting older since I'm already
there. All universes are organic,and if there is any chance of a spark
of life it will happen. Humankind very well might not ever get to a
planet out side our solar system say 50 light years away. Even if we did
and found a planet with life,but the highest form of this life was moss.
That begs the question Was this great exploration worth the effort to
find such a low life? I estimate there is only 10,000,000 intelligent
life forms that have evolved in our universe. I have reason to believe
Earth's intelligent life is in the half way point of evolvement,as
relative to all other intelligent life of the universe. Bert

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:36:27 -0400
(G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:

Hi Ray Let me save you some time in getting older since I'm already
there. All universes are organic,and if there is any chance of a spark
of life it will happen. Humankind very well might not ever get to a
planet out side our solar system say 50 light years away. Even if we
did and found a planet with life,but the highest form of this life was
moss. That begs the question Was this great exploration worth the
effort to find such a low life? I estimate there is only 10,000,000
intelligent life forms that have evolved in our universe. I have
reason to believe Earth's intelligent life is in the half way point of
evolvement,as relative to all other intelligent life of the universe.
Bert


Well I wouldn't like to put a number on it Bert for intelligent life,
but I do think when the numbers are taken into account the odds are good
that we are not alone in the intelligent life stakes. Will we ever meet
up?, if the numbers are low probably not, even 10,000,000 is small for
the size of the universe. And as I have said before, unless the sort of
space travel they have in say star trek is possible we won;t go far at
all in space. Where we do go in space will probably be robots as there
seems little point in considering anything beyond the solar system.

Here's another example of how resilient life can be.

http://www.livescience.com/animalwor...reeze_dry.html

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 9 Aug 2005 19:25:52 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 8 Aug 2005 21:14:27 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17575

Ray,

The older I get, the more I wonder if life started on Earth;
that it
wasn't seeded here directly or otherwise. Moreover, as time goes
by, I really begin to wonder if the question is meaningful beyond
that of curiosity.

As far as life is concerned; it seems to be very early millenea,
... Our understanding of what life means, what it represents, how
it works in the extended sense is sorely lacking.

What is life ?

No satisfactory answers for me.
The background concepts which would provide a language to deal
with this question seem to be lacking.


Life is all about ' information ' and it's usage.
Shannon & Weaver, as good physical scientists beat the biologists
to the punch on this one !

... Most unfortunate, really. It quite like the situation with
NASA's next generation of CSV; the expectation of what ought to be
is strongly influenced by what already exists in the form of the
space shuttle ... The proverbial ' wheel ' has been invented.

What is life ?
Stupid question! ... why re-invent the wheel ?

Hmmm ...

RL

I have long thought life(whatever that is or means) is far more
likely to be all over the place rather than just here on this
planet. When you think that all the ingredients for it are all over
the place in the universe then it becomes inconceivable that this
planet is the only place where it's happened. Whether this needs a
seeding or not I'm not sure, probably not as under the right
conditions life would start up but seeding of some sort may happen
too. I also think that if or when we find signs of current or past
life say on Mars then it will probably be not to dissimilar to the
sort of life we see on Earth, afterall we all came from the same
ingredients so I would think it unlikely that say life on Mars is
going to be totally new and different in make up.

So in short I think life is very probably all over the place,
everywhere. But how much of it evolves to produce intelligent life
is another matter ;-)









Ray,
Although, I am reticent to admit it ...

" Bush weighs into evolution debate "

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4136690.stm

It would seem that I am on the right side of this debate.



yuk

RL


There were many posts in here a while back mostly between me and Nighbat
about the universe being a simulation, I think you were here around
the time, which when you think of it sounds daft, until you think about
it a lot and slowly it begins to make some kind of sense. You can look
up Dr. Nick Bostrom or go here

http://www.simulation-argument.com/

His home page is here

http://www.nickbostrom.com/


Not the kind of intelligent design Bush would seem to want taught.
Though I think I can understand why religion could be drawn to it, I
mean it makes far more sense than a God figure they have touted for so
long, though I expect they will distort even that for their own ends.

For me religion is just like a business venture, they are only after
your money, always were it seems and like any company selling it's wares
all kinds of variations on a theme will flourish if it draws in the
punters. I expect Blair will jump on it soon now, only difference there
is Blair actually thinks he is God and can do no wrong ;-)

I'll get to the intersting material later ...
Nevertheless, the following says something

... not to mention the possibility of NASA of gutting it's science
section ...
Ugly, ugly, ugly. ( ... Say it ain't so, Bert ! )

[Quoting ... ] See http://tinyurl.com/8bda8

Museum exhibits a creationist viewpoint
New front opens in debate over origins


...."There is so much demographic data telling us that about 50 percent
of the American public believes in the biblical story of origins," said
Sharp, 62, a former high school science teacher.

According to a November 2004 Gallup Poll, 45 percent or "almost half of
the U.S. population believes that human beings did not evolve, but
instead were created by God--as stated in the Bible--essentially in
their current form about 10,000 years ago." The number of Americans who
say they believe that has not dipped below 44 percent since Gallup
began polling on the issue in 1982...."