Lamination as a tool for distinguishing microbial and metazoan biosystems

Lamination as a tool for distinguishing microbial and metazoan
biosystems from inert structures

Conclusion:
"Lamination often indicates the presence of microbial or microbially
dominated biosystems. Furthermore, laminated structures are an
important borderline to distinguish micro and macroorganisms, although
such a distinction is relative. Both the presence and absence of
lamination are lawful phenomena based on the fundamental physical and
biological/biogeochemical principles."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/scholz.pdf



'nuff said!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2443L2M1.HTML




Jonathan

s

jonathan wrote:
Lamination as a tool for distinguishing microbial and metazoan
biosystems from inert structures

Conclusion:
"Lamination often indicates the presence of microbial or microbially
dominated biosystems. Furthermore, laminated structures are an
important borderline to distinguish micro and macroorganisms, although
such a distinction is relative. Both the presence and absence of
lamination are lawful phenomena based on the fundamental physical and
biological/biogeochemical principles."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/scholz.pdf



'nuff said!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2443L2M1.HTML




Jonathan

s



BULL****

November 9, 2004

Bob Ehrlich wrote:

jonathan wrote:
Lamination as a tool for distinguishing microbial and metazoan
biosystems from inert structures

Conclusion:
"Lamination often indicates the presence of microbial or microbially
dominated biosystems. Furthermore, laminated structures are an
important borderline to distinguish micro and macroorganisms, although
such a distinction is relative. Both the presence and absence of
lamination are lawful phenomena based on the fundamental physical and
biological/biogeochemical principles."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/scholz.pdf



'nuff said!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2443L2M1.HTML




Jonathan

s



BULL****

Hmmm, let's see, jonathan offers us a the title to a scientific conference paper, a link
to scientific conference paper, a quote from the paper, and a link to an image, but Bob
only offers us BS.

jonathan or Bob? So many choices, so little time.

I think I'll have to go with jonathan on this one.

plonk

Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net

"Bob Ehrlich" wrote in message
...
jonathan wrote:
Lamination as a tool for distinguishing microbial and metazoan
biosystems from inert structures

Conclusion:
"Lamination often indicates the presence of microbial or microbially
dominated biosystems. Furthermore, laminated structures are an
important borderline to distinguish micro and macroorganisms, although
such a distinction is relative. Both the presence and absence of
lamination are lawful phenomena based on the fundamental physical and
biological/biogeochemical principles."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/scholz.pdf



'nuff said!


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2443L2M1.HTML




Jonathan

s



BULL****



It's always helpful to say why you think so. The thing is Bob, that laminated
rocks are pervasive at Meridiani, they are everywhere there. That needs an
explanation. Why are there so many repetitive layers in an environment that
seems comparatively static? And why is iron and hematite in such
abundance? Maybe this is why?


"It is this common association of microbes and iron
deposition on earth that has spurred hopes that robot
crafts exploring the hematite anomaly of Mars' Meridiani
Planum might find evidence for ancient life. The
hematite deposits of Meridiani Planum [7], regardless of
their exact origin, are considered to be a favorable host
for microorganisms that might have been associated
with their formation [8]."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1369.pdf



"Spacecraft observations of the landing area for one of NASA's two Mars rovers
now indicate there likely was an enormous sea or lake covering the region in the
past, according to a new University of Colorado at Boulder study."
http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2004/261.html


Lots of water, iron and laminated (bio)sedimentary rocks. Lots of
soil that shouldn't be there under the present conditions and lots
of mysterious spheres. This just reeks not of geology, but an
ecosystem.

But if this still isn't enough, there's a simple logical argument
that is difficult to refute. Countless spheres show the same
asymmetrical features, such as an off-center slash and a
single aperture. Asymmetrical features are a product of
random processes, so there should be a random distribution
of sizes, shapes etc. Yet one sphere after another shows
the ...very same...asymmetrical features. Virtually identical
and to the horizon.

This contradiction means a non-living explanation for the
spheres is logically ruled out. Only life can make
near perfect copies of itself.



Jonathan

s

In article , Jonathan wrote:
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems,sci.geo.ge ology,sci.space.policy

What on earth is this being posted to poetry groups for?
This is classic trolling behaviour, which is not really what your normally
reasonable (overenthusiastic perhaps, but not classic kookery).
I'm not really sure what the relevance to "space policy" is, apart from it's
got to do with an established space mission, but I suppose that's sufficient
relevance.

Lamination can be formed by both organic and inorganic mechanisms. No geologist
worth their salt is unfamiliar with multiple ways that it can be formed, so in
interpreting any particular deposit you have to look at the entirety of the evidence.

Conclusion:
"Lamination often indicates the presence of microbial or microbially
dominated biosystems.

I think that your eyes are reading the letters "often" but your brain is
hearing "utterly invariably".

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233

"Aidan Karley" wrote in message
. invalid...
In article , Jonathan wrote:
Newsgroups:
alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems,sci.geo.ge ology,sci.space.policy

What on earth is this being posted to poetry groups for?


Those are the ngs I post to normally. They don't mind much.



This is classic trolling behavior, which is not really what your normally
reasonable (overenthusiastic perhaps, but not classic kookery).


Trolling is an attempt to make fools of others. Cross-posting
is more an attempt to draw attention to oneself, a bit childish
perhaps, but not mean-spirited as in a troll.



I'm not really sure what the relevance to "space policy" is, apart from it's
got to do with an established space mission, but I suppose that's sufficient
relevance.

Lamination can be formed by both organic and inorganic mechanisms.


I agree absolutely. The big question is to figure out which it is.

From Dr Farmer, head of Nasa's Astrobiology Program and
a primary source for my opinions on this subject.


"At all scales of observation, problems often arise when trying
to distinguish between biological and inorganic features in the ancient
rock record. Stromatolites, defined as laminated biosedimentary fabrics
formed by the trapping and binding of sediments and/or
precipitation of minerals by microorganisms (Walter 1977),
are sometimes impossible to distinguish from finely laminated sediments
formed by inorganic processes"
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/taphon.pdf


According to Dr Farmer a primary method of answering which
is the case is through looking for anomalous concentrations of trace
metals.


Morphological Biosignatures and the Search for Life on Mars

"Determining the location of potential paleobiological repositories
on Mars requires an understanding of the martian surface in
terms of elemental abundances and mineralogy. This variety
of hematite on Earth forms only in the presence of large amounts of
water, and typically at elevated (hydrothermal) temperatures
(Christensen et al., 2000)."
http://geology.asu.edu/jfarmer/pubs/pdfs/morpho.pdf



It should be clear Meridiani is shaped by underground water. This outcrop
water flow seems obvious to me.
http://mars.gh.wh.uni-dortmund.de/me...5L7L7.jpg.html

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...NP1909L0M1.JPG

Warm mineral rich hydrothermal systems are also considered
to have the highest biological potential of any context.
Combined with the vast deposits of iron in the form of
hematite, and high concentrations of sulfates, provide
a context highly consistent with sulfate reducing bacteria.
Which is the type of bacteria thought to have been the
very earliest to evolve.


No geologist
worth their salt is unfamiliar with multiple ways that it can be formed, so in
interpreting any particular deposit you have to look at the entirety of the
evidence.


This geologist provided a nice explanation of bacterial
concretions, which also fit nicely with the observations.


"The geologists employed by NASA-JPL must not be very well-
informed on research during recent years concerning the function
of bacteria in a vast array of diagenetic (rock forming)
processes and, including the nucleation and growth of
concretions. Yet, in my research into diagenesis in
paleoichnites (ancient traces such as animal tracks and their
fossilized droppings, coprolites) it has been necessary to get
into current research on that, in order to better understand the
things my colleagues and I in paleoichnology find in streambeds
and in broader areas of anciently tracked-upon substrates."

"Nowhere known to me on earth are spherical concretions found in
anywhere nearly the concentration we have been shown within the
layered substrate in that Martian crater or in adjacent areas
where the concretions seem to have weathered (or have been
knocked) ex situ. Wherever I have found concretions in Early
Cretaceous substrates (Barremian-Aptian) they have formed where
the 'muck' that was turned to rock (likely with the help of
bacteria) was (when wet, in dinosaur times) full of organic
material and bacteria, both ferrophagic (iron eating) and other."

"In the wet, mushy or 'muddy' environment, the resulting micro-
concretion slowly grows (sometimes incorporating or
encapsulating adjacent grains of silt or sand, sometimes simply
by crystalline growth from colloidally suspended silica
crystallizing and pushing adjacent silt ahead of its growth,
sometimes by a combination of the two processes), increasing its
diameter spherically across time. If conditions for the
bacterial colony's growth are episodic, one can sometimes see
(upon slicing the concretion) rather distinct concentric layers
of growth that formed the concretion, but where conditions for
growth are constant, the concretion may show a crystalline
pattern with virtually no concentric layering."
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/.../m03-035.shtml




And this description of how bacterial concretions form is highly
consistent with the pictures of the spheres. In the following pic
at the lower left is a sphere showing just such a growth pattern.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...8P2956M2M1.JPG



And there's plenty more contextual evidence that is consistent
with an ecosystem shaped by bacteria. I'll stop here and
wait for the next question. I bet I can answer it g.
Try me, that's the whole point of this post, is to see if
anyone can poke holes in this view. Not a troll, but an
invitation to debate a possibly timeless and magnificent
discovery.



Jonathan

s






Conclusion:
"Lamination often indicates the presence of microbial or microbially
dominated biosystems.

I think that your eyes are reading the letters "often" but your brain is
hearing "utterly invariably".

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233

jonathan wrote:

"Nowhere known to me on earth are spherical concretions found in
anywhere nearly the concentration we have been shown within the
layered substrate in that Martian crater or in adjacent areas
where the concretions seem to have weathered (or have been
knocked) ex situ.

You must not be familiar with the concentrations of cave pearls, where
said pearls coat the floors of rooms many meters square in area, and
formed when these (usually sandy) cave floors are intermittently flooded
with calcite rich water. Now, near as we know, these are not aseptic
locations, and the microbes there can affect the rates at which cave
pearls form, but the microbes themselves do not create the pearls.

In article , Jonathan wrote:
According to Dr Farmer a primary method of answering which
is the case is through looking for anomalous concentrations of trace
metals.

Which is why the rovers are equipped with the X-ray tools - to
get the chemistry.

Warm mineral rich hydrothermal systems are also considered
to have the highest biological potential of any context.

Certainly interesting. But they are not the *only* game in town.

and high concentrations of sulfates, provide
a context highly consistent with sulfate reducing bacteria.
Which is the type of bacteria thought to have been the
very earliest to evolve.

Some people have suggested it. Other people have suggested other
bacteria. And the horizontal mobility of bacterial genes renders the
question very moot. I'm not aware of any "consensus" opinion that isn't
disputed by another (equally respectable) "consensus".

Try me, that's the whole point of this post,

The only question that I've really got is, how many regular
readers of the poetry groups have you asked if they enjoy being
cross-posted on these messages (cross-posting cut down to
sci.geo.geology and sci.space.policy, btw). I notice that you don't
consider it relevant to post whatever poetry-related thoughts you have
here, which is probably keeping you out of a lot of people's killfiles.

I look at rocks for my living. I look at *boring* rocks for my
living to be precise (I look at *interesting* rocks for fun). I've not
seen anything particularly interesting in any of the links that you've
posted. They're sandy sediments with cross bedding. Film at 11. They
show that Mars had an early, moist period. Film at 11. They show that
there was hydrothermal activity in the early Martian geology. Film at
11.
The discovery of life on Mars is likely to be the product of a
lot of boring, detail work, not a sudden startling discovery
(particularly from the archives that have already been scanned by
full-time geologists as the data is coming in). IF it ever happens.
That's a word "IF", which you'll find in your dictionary beyond
"certain" and before "impossible".

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233

November 11, 2004

Aidan Karley wrote:

The discovery of life on Mars is likely to be the product of a
lot of boring, detail work, not a sudden startling discovery
(particularly from the archives that have already been scanned by
full-time geologists as the data is coming in). IF it ever happens.
That's a word "IF", which you'll find in your dictionary beyond
"certain" and before "impossible".

plonk

That was so easy.

Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net

"Thomas Lee Elifritz" wrote in message
...
November 11, 2004

Aidan Karley wrote:

The discovery of life on Mars is likely to be the product of a
lot of boring, detail work, not a sudden startling discovery
(particularly from the archives that have already been scanned by
full-time geologists as the data is coming in). IF it ever happens.
That's a word "IF", which you'll find in your dictionary beyond
"certain" and before "impossible".

plonk

That was so easy.

Thomas Lee Elifritz

The gentleman makes a resonable argument against your position in his
complete post. IMHO to snip a portion of an argument you aparrently are not
comfortable responding to, then ignoring the balance makes you a candidate
for the way you treat others that question your arguments.

PLONK
Ralph Nesbitt