Yet Another Roswell Thread

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:42:28 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

This is what I mean. You and I think most of the members of this group
have nothing viable to say. In fact if you want commercial operations
Arianespace will provide them. If you feel you can undercut them -
Fine.

Were the sentences in the above paragraph supposed to bear any logical
relationship to each other? If so, they failed.

All you seem to be able to do is release a torrent of invective when
anyone challenges you.

No, I release a "torrent of invective" when people accuse me saying
things that I didn't say, or demand answers to things on which I've
expressed no opinion or interest.

On Jul 9, 11:03 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
[...]
Yes, everything is a big conspiracy theory, Ian.

No only the cocaine industry.

snort

I see that you found some...

Eric Chomko wrote:

:On Jul 9, 11:03 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
:[...]
: Yes, everything is a big conspiracy theory, Ian.
:
:No only the cocaine industry.
:
: snort
:
:I see that you found some...
:

Poor Eric. Even if everyone else was on drugs, he'd be the 'slow kid'
in the room...


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

On 10 Jul, 20:21, Eric Chomko wrote:
On Jul 9, 11:03 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
[...]

Yes, everything is a big conspiracy theory, Ian.

No only the cocaine industry.

snort

I see that you found some...

When I introduced the discussion
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci...d52f39 22682f
continued on
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci...c8c85e 219927
I feltthat space colonies were an irrelevancy to the main task of
safeguardind Earth.

Since then my attitude has hardened. I not only think they are
irrelevant, but seeing the people who seem to want to go there I am
beginning to think they would constitute a distinct threat to world
peace.

The question of ET is an important one and not one to be dismissed by
invective and innuendo. I think the general public needs an accurate
and unbiased account of where we stand. Rand seemd determined to muddy
the waters and not really contribute anything.

The conspiracy theory we frequently hear is that the military have
alien spaceships and (sometimes) the bodies of dead aliens, but for
various reasons they are unwilling to release the information to the
general public. This particular conspiracy theory is one that cannot
be true as ET would come with AI. Not in manned spaceships.

There is a conspiracy theory here somewhere - by deinition. The
envelope accuses the military of conspiracy, yet the envelope could
well be the conspiracy.

I feel Rand knows more than he is letting on, but he won't tell us for
some reason.


- Ian Parker


- Ian Parker

Ian Parker wrote:

:
:The conspiracy theory we frequently hear is that the military have
:alien spaceships and (sometimes) the bodies of dead aliens, but for
:various reasons they are unwilling to release the information to the
:general public. This particular conspiracy theory is one that cannot
:be true as ET would come with AI. Not in manned spaceships.
:

Why? Other than the usual Ian Parker 'AI' bleat, I mean.

:
:There is a conspiracy theory here somewhere - by deinition. The
:envelope accuses the military of conspiracy, yet the envelope could
:well be the conspiracy.
:

You do understand that 'conspiracy theory' almost inevitably means
that the 'theory' is a delusion of the paranoid, right?

:
:I feel Rand knows more than he is letting on, but he won't tell us for
:some reason.
:

He'd tell you, but then he'd have to kill you...

No! No more gravy! Please!!


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 Jul, 16:24, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:17:20 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:





On 9 Jul, 13:03, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:29:12 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

On 6 Jul, 08:12, wrote:
The deathbed confession of Lt. Walter Haut has revived the Roswell
debate. See:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21994224-2,00.html

As I keep on saying he is a DISINFORMER. Off his own bat or prompted I
just don't know. In view of some of the things I read I can believe
just about anything.

ET will have made interstellar journeys with AI or not at all.

laughing at Ian's monomania

Yes, of course. It's not possible to do anything without AI. Just
look at the world around us.

What is your route to interstellar traval Rand.

I don't claim to have a route to interstellar travel. Any more than I
claim to "have a patent," or have asked you for a hundred million
dollars. Again, you're just making things up.

I don't have to have a route to interstellar travel to point out that
your contention is completely unsupported.

The history of space travel is completely unamiguous on this point.
Unmanned exploration reaches places where manned exploration cannot
go. Question - how much intelligence do you need to make a particular
trip. I have said that at LEO all you really need is telepresence -
the only AI you need is a transfer function. The Moon is 2.5 secs,
hence the challenge to maintain a ccar with a 2.5 sec delay.

The nearest star is a double journey of 8 years. This requires real
AI, real decision making capability, otherwise the whole thing is
impossible.

My proposal for interstellar travel is basically the Forward proposal
with AI guiding the spacecraft. Possibly if we had real
miniaturization antimatter might be used in the deceleration phase.
One thing though is clear to me. Only automatic equipment could
possibly survive the journey.

Warp drive - that is
the only alternative. What else is there, an ark where a large number
of generations make an interstellar trip? - piffle!

If it is impossible to develop AI then interstellar travel is
impossible. End of story.

No, just unsupported nonsense.

Most scientists would not go so far as to support Kurzweil all the
way, but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would
put interstellar travel before AI.


- Ian Parker

Mind you, I´m not really interested in this alien this and alien that,
if they are around they are being pretty coy about it.

What struck me was the following you said "Only automatic equipment
could possibly survive the journey" which appears to indicate you are
discounting the possibillity for manned interstellar travel, as you
claim must really be on that score as well.

That sounds to me to be a strong case of pessimism. Mind you, I´m
avare of the threat posed by cosmic rays. I simply don´t think the
radiation problem to be completelly insurmountable for all time. I
really expect a solution to arrive some time during this century, as
long as we get around doing something about the problem.

In addition, if you are suggesting that impacts with sand grains are
going to prove to hasardous risk at close to relativistic speeds, it´s
conceivable to go slower and thus to accept longer travelling times.
Mind you, at something less than 1% of lightspeed, only frosen zygots
could travel, the craft or seedship needing to be AI operated for
sure.

Cheers, Einar

On 11 Jul, 16:40, Fred J. McCall wrote:


He'd tell you, but then he'd have to kill you...

Oh dear, there IS a conspiracy then!

- Ian Parker

Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 Jul, 17:48, (Rand Simberg) wrote:

You obviously have something to defend. I don't know how the envelope
came to be discovered - or even if the whole story is not a pack of
lies from beginning to end. The possibilities are these.

1) Pack of lies from beginning to end manufactured by the author or
his associates.

2) Roswell was ITSELF puming it out on Little Green Men, while
pretending to deny it. He was told what perported to be the "truth"
but was itself a fabrication which he believed.

3) The envelope was planted by someone.

I don't really want to start yet another conspircacy theory and am
inclined to "1" although I really don't know. The other two are
possibilities.


One thing is absolutely certain. There cannot be an ET with 1950's +
technology. That is what we are all being asked to swallow. As I
say :- alien abduction - DNA!! You don't believe in AI obviously. Do
you believe in DNA?

They say there are dead aliens. Come on! There are 3 possibilities.

1) AI - That to me still seems to typify my visualisation of alien
technology despite what you say.

2) Warp drive - Absolutely impossible.

3) Ark - where is it? They have travelled for thousands of years.

It is NOT a non sequitur. ET may not have AI in which case he is
unlikely - impossible more like, to be in a position to make an
interstellar journey. If he has got AI, that is what in the first
instance will make the trip.

These things are so palpably obvious as hardly worth talking about.
Even if we postulate an ark. This must have been constructed using
some pretty powerful robotic technology. To keep a group of people
alive for thousands of years - you work it out.

You tell me you don't need to have any ideas about interstellar
travel. I beg to differ. The way I take it you are free to write any
sort of SF you wish.

If I look at your proposals, they are quite simply not credible. If I
go to Google and look at their research papers. OK they are nowhere
near there yet, but their papers are all credible. This is why AI is
challenging, yes bur credible. I don't find anything you have said
remotely credible. Indeed in that SSTO thread you have changed your
ground. There are NO real regulatory constraints, only those of a
credible program.


- Ian Parker

Mind you, if we are merelly mentioning possibilities, an alien
spaceark could conceivably be hidden in a solar orbit somewhere beyond
Pluto. If it were built deliberatelly with it in mind that it would be
hard to observe, say with a surface made out of some material that
reflects very litle amount of light.

Not that I really anticipate that something like that is actually
somewhere out there. Simple mentioning a possibility.

Cheers, Einar

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:50:08 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


There is a conspiracy theory here somewhere - by deinition. The
envelope accuses the military of conspiracy, yet the envelope could
well be the conspiracy.

I feel Rand knows more than he is letting on, but he won't tell us for
some reason.

Yes, key word here being "feel," since in your paranoid delusions,
you're clearly incapable of coherent *thought*.

On 11 Jul, 17:01, wrote:
Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 Jul, 17:48, (Rand Simberg) wrote:

You obviously have something to defend. I don't know how the envelope
came to be discovered - or even if the whole story is not a pack of
lies from beginning to end. The possibilities are these.

1) Pack of lies from beginning to end manufactured by the author or
his associates.

2) Roswell was ITSELF puming it out on Little Green Men, while
pretending to deny it. He was told what perported to be the "truth"
but was itself a fabrication which he believed.

3) The envelope was planted by someone.

I don't really want to start yet another conspircacy theory and am
inclined to "1" although I really don't know. The other two are
possibilities.

One thing is absolutely certain. There cannot be an ET with 1950's +
technology. That is what we are all being asked to swallow. As I
say :- alien abduction - DNA!! You don't believe in AI obviously. Do
you believe in DNA?

They say there are dead aliens. Come on! There are 3 possibilities.

1) AI - That to me still seems to typify my visualisation of alien
technology despite what you say.

2) Warp drive - Absolutely impossible.

3) Ark - where is it? They have travelled for thousands of years.

It is NOT a non sequitur. ET may not have AI in which case he is
unlikely - impossible more like, to be in a position to make an
interstellar journey. If he has got AI, that is what in the first
instance will make the trip.

These things are so palpably obvious as hardly worth talking about.
Even if we postulate an ark. This must have been constructed using
some pretty powerful robotic technology. To keep a group of people
alive for thousands of years - you work it out.

You tell me you don't need to have any ideas about interstellar
travel. I beg to differ. The way I take it you are free to write any
sort of SF you wish.

If I look at your proposals, they are quite simply not credible. If I
go to Google and look at their research papers. OK they are nowhere
near there yet, but their papers are all credible. This is why AI is
challenging, yes bur credible. I don't find anything you have said
remotely credible. Indeed in that SSTO thread you have changed your
ground. There are NO real regulatory constraints, only those of a
credible program.

- Ian Parker

Mind you, if we are merelly mentioning possibilities, an alien
spaceark could conceivably be hidden in a solar orbit somewhere beyond
Pluto. If it were built deliberatelly with it in mind that it would be
hard to observe, say with a surface made out of some material that
reflects very litle amount of light.

Not that I really anticipate that something like that is actually
somewhere out there. Simple mentioning a possibility.

Dawkins when he attacks religion mentions the great spaghetti monster.
I don't want to be drawn into arguments about the existence or not of
God, but this is in effect removing UFOs and ET from the field of
experiment.

Actually what I had in mind rather more was some very minute
spacecraft. You see technology is becoming more and more miniaturized.
They say that by 2020 a cube will hold all our liftime memories. A
sinle sperm/ovum contains half of our genetic code (400MB apiece). ET
therefore will be AI the size of a gragonfly or even smaller. When you
see an insect you might be looking at ET! Of course if there is a Web
ET will be on it. ET/AI will exist as a swarm, that is a set of
interconnecting elements.

This is the viewpoint from Emergent Technology. The Groom Lake ETs
represent 1950s and 60s technology - not 2007 Emergent Technology, or
even the real ET technology. That is why I say the story is impossible
at face value. Any version of an antigravity machine (another rumour)
is also impossible as you would have to overcome 11km/s too get in! -
At least not to mention the Sun and the Milky Way.

I think it a pity that certain people do not seem to be able to listen
to reason. As I saif to Eric Chomko - I hope to Hell they never get to
Mars. With respect to ESTEC and Sylvia Else - I hope they fail. While
the cost is €40,000/Kg it will not unduly hamper scientific space
exploration, but it will keep the likes of them off Mars.


- Ian Parker