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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
That Hubble repair mission is causing a lot of trouble as far as
scheduling for other things goes: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._update_a.html Pat |
#2
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:42:09 -0600, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: That Hubble repair mission is causing a lot of trouble as far as scheduling for other things goes: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._update_a.html Like an Ares-1-X slip is going to slow the actual program down. |
#3
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
"Rand Simberg" wrote in message ... On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:42:09 -0600, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: That Hubble repair mission is causing a lot of trouble as far as scheduling for other things goes: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._update_a.html Like an Ares-1-X slip is going to slow the actual program down. NASA management certainly played the blame the Russians game with ISS, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were found doing the same sort of thing with Ares. Jeff -- A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein |
#4
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
On 31 Oct, 10:58, "Jeff Findley" wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote in message ... On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:42:09 -0600, in a place far, far away, Pat Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: That Hubble repair mission is causing a lot of trouble as far as scheduling for other things goes: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._update_a.html Like an Ares-1-X slip is going to slow the actual program down. NASA management certainly played the blame the Russians game with ISS, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were found doing the same sort of thing with Ares. Jeff -- A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein I have just read an article in the Times which says that Apollo/saturn veterans are being drafted in to sort out the Ares problems. I did say some time back that Sauturn worked and one could do a lot worse than dig out the S5 designs. - Ian Parker |
#5
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
"Ian Parker" wrote in message ... I have just read an article in the Times which says that Apollo/saturn veterans are being drafted in to sort out the Ares problems. I did say some time back that Sauturn worked and one could do a lot worse than dig out the S5 designs. Saturn V did have its teething problems. In particular, the POGO problem was rather severe. However, I always like to note that POGO problems in a liquid fueled engine stage can be solved, and were solved on Saturn V. But the vibration problem with solid rocket motors can't really be eliminated. The best you can do with large solids is to mitigate the problem. Jeff -- A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein |
#6
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
Jeff Findley wrote: Saturn V did have its teething problems. In particular, the POGO problem was rather severe. However, I always like to note that POGO problems in a liquid fueled engine stage can be solved, and were solved on Saturn V. Sort of solved... they never did completely figure out the root cause of it in the first stage, and the second stage severely manifested it at least once - during the Apollo 13 mission in which it caused the center J-2 to shut down just prior to it getting to the point where it could have caused vehicle failure. There's a discussion of it in relation to various boosters he http://www.pwrengineering.com/articles/pogo.htm Pat |
#7
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
Ian Parker wrote:
: :I have just read an article in the Times which says that Apollo/saturn :veterans are being drafted in to sort out the Ares problems. : Which "Times" and could we have a real cite to that? You do realize that "Apollo/Saturn veterans" would be in their 80's or older by now, right? : :I did say :some time back that Sauturn worked and one could do a lot worse than :dig out the S5 designs. : One could also do much, much, MUCH better... -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is only stupid." -- Heinrich Heine |
#8
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message dakotatelephone... Sort of solved... they never did completely figure out the root cause of it in the first stage, and the second stage severely manifested it at least once - during the Apollo 13 mission in which it caused the center J-2 to shut down just prior to it getting to the point where it could have caused vehicle failure. There's a discussion of it in relation to various boosters he http://www.pwrengineering.com/articles/pogo.htm To be fair, there really weren't enough Saturn V flights to completely work out the bugs. As the above article states, there were several causes for POGO type vibrations on the various Saturn V stages. My point is that no matter how many times Ares I flies, its SRB will *always* be generating thrust oscillations. With a liquid fueled engine, there are always things you can tweak which could potentially reduce or eliminate things like hard starts, combustion instabilities, and POGO. Hybrids are the worst of both worlds. They have most of the disadvantages of solids and liquids. Jeff -- A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein |
#9
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
... Ian Parker wrote: : :I have just read an article in the Times which says that Apollo/saturn :veterans are being drafted in to sort out the Ares problems. : Which "Times" and could we have a real cite to that? You do realize that "Apollo/Saturn veterans" would be in their 80's or older by now, right? : :I did say :some time back that Sauturn worked and one could do a lot worse than :dig out the S5 designs. : One could also do much, much, MUCH better... -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is only stupid." -- Heinrich Heine Note those words: One could also do much, much, MUCH better... which are true but if you have any engineering experience then you would be thinking, Well, there are basically two kinds of product improvement over time. These are, 1) incremental growth; 2) breakthru. However, the few Saturn V flights (in face of budgets cuts and engineering shops and production line rumors) weren't sufficient experience for either one to happen. Truly great ideas were on the boards (and when I think what would have come of it if the Vietnam war had been cut back to free dollars for Apollo rather than Apollo killed to gain dollars for the war, *that hurts*. Think of how today's America would be different). Anyhow, yes, I recall hearing of the Saturn V pogo, and of the remedies for it. You know the age of the workers who made Apollo averaged out to about 28? If the program had not been killed, those people in their primes would have accomplished miracles. I have a suggestion, if you want to know a little more of the Washington political style around that time: find a video of Burt Rutan's talk at ISDC 2005. The video loses his slides, so I'm scouting around cyberspace to find a pointer to his talk put in print somewhere -- with the slides. If I can find this, I'll advertise it all thru cyberspace. From the rooftops, as they say, but that's another topic. Yes, we could do much, much, MUCH better.... Can you review the news, scout around right here in this topic, sci.spac.policy, and guess some reasons why such bad people in power could foist such bad decisions upon all of us? So it never happened? ?? Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Oct 31] |
#10
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HST repair delayed; Ares 1-X launch slips
In sci.space.history Pat Flannery wrote:
There's a discussion of it in relation to various boosters he http://www.pwrengineering.com/articles/pogo.htm Wish I fully understood it I wonder what is done in Merlin-1C/Falcon[19] wrt the issue? rick jones -- Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought. these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
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