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More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 10th 18, 12:46 PM posted to sci.space.history
Stuf4
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Posts: 535
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

From Fred J. McCall:
Stuf4 wrote:

Fact: NASA uses racist clocks.


Fact: You're an insane racist.


Clearly something has tripped where you have made the decision to depart from rationality. Your primary focus has shifted to insults and degradation.

I am sure that there will be those who will be very interested to know just exactly how these clocks are racist. But you have made it clear that you are not one such person.

If you have no interest in this story, then you have the option to never again click on it. But what is apparent is that your interest is in verbal harassment of me. And it is because of behavior such as yours that I have never posted my actual name here at ssh. I learned how vile human beings can be to other human beings on internet forums way back in the 90s.

I had maintained a hope that it was only a certain few members who had set the nasty environment that permeated this place, and that when they died off, things might be reasonably respectful. But clearly I was mistaken. Or rather, I was mistaken in *who* I was identifying as the source of such vile behavior.

It could also be concluded that violence is inherently embedded as integral to the human condition, and that if the world population were reduced to just 2 people, one would kill the other.

Here again, I would like to think that it would make a world of difference depending on *who* those 2 people were. I am certain that if it were me, I would have absolutely no violence in words or actions toward the other. And if a computer were around, that person might find my decades long records of effort spent on the interwebs motivated by a desire that things might improve, even if just by a little bit.

....by pointing out things like racism that billions of other people appear to be perfectly content in ignoring.

You are so keen to see that it is actually the person pointing out racism who is the problem.

~ CT



It has been recently suggested that certain issues are Off Topic for this forum.


Yes. Insanity has no place here and this isn't a 'forum'.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

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  #12  
Old February 10th 18, 08:37 PM posted to sci.space.history
Dean Markley
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Posts: 430
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 7:46:42 AM UTC-5, Stuf4 wrote:
From Fred J. McCall:
Stuf4 wrote:

Fact: NASA uses racist clocks.


Fact: You're an insane racist.


Clearly something has tripped where you have made the decision to depart from rationality. Your primary focus has shifted to insults and degradation.

  #13  
Old February 10th 18, 09:03 PM posted to sci.space.history
Stuf4
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 535
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

From Dean Markley:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 7:46:42 AM UTC-5, Stuf4 wrote:

snip
Clearly something has tripped where you have made the decision to depart from rationality. Your primary focus has shifted to insults and degradation.

I am sure that there will be those who will be very interested to know just exactly how these clocks are racist. But you have made it clear that you are not one such person.

If you have no interest in this story, then you have the option to never again click on it. But what is apparent is that your interest is in verbal harassment of me. And it is because of behavior such as yours that I have never posted my actual name here at ssh. I learned how vile human beings can be to other human beings on internet forums way back in the 90s.

I had maintained a hope that it was only a certain few members who had set the nasty environment that permeated this place, and that when they died off, things might be reasonably respectful. But clearly I was mistaken. Or rather, I was mistaken in *who* I was identifying as the source of such vile behavior.

It could also be concluded that violence is inherently embedded as integral to the human condition, and that if the world population were reduced to just 2 people, one would kill the other.

Here again, I would like to think that it would make a world of difference depending on *who* those 2 people were. I am certain that if it were me, I would have absolutely no violence in words or actions toward the other.. And if a computer were around, that person might find my decades long records of effort spent on the interwebs motivated by a desire that things might improve, even if just by a little bit.

...by pointing out things like racism that billions of other people appear to be perfectly content in ignoring.

You are so keen to see that it is actually the person pointing out racism who is the problem.

snip
You're a democrat, aren't you?


Without going into who I have, and have not, voted for...
I know many Republicans who are opposed to racism.

....yet these same people support the use of racist clocks.
The clocks are a non-partisan issue, best I can tell.

Or more accurately, an non-partisan non-issue. Because no one cares about it.
I have *never* seen anyone raise a single objection to the use of such clocks.

I see the current situation to be akin to something like blackface. There was a time when no one questioned this practice. It's just how things were done. Try doing that today, and everyone clearly sees this to be racist. So no one cares about these clocks today, but it is easy to imagine some point of time in the future where awareness will have been raised to the point where such usage will be shunned. And we will look back on these NASA documents with these time references (among many other uses) and people will see very clearly how asleep we are today in 2018 about certain aspects of the racism issue.

~ CT
  #14  
Old February 11th 18, 05:08 PM posted to sci.space.history
Peter Stickney[_2_]
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Posts: 120
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 12:37:19 -0800, Dean Markley wrote:

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 7:46:42 AM UTC-5, Stuf4 wrote:
From Fred J. McCall:
Stuf4 wrote:

Fact: NASA uses racist clocks.


Fact: You're an insane racist.


Clearly something has tripped where you have made the decision to
depart from rationality. Your primary focus has shifted to insults and
degradation.

I am sure that there will be those who will be very interested to know
just exactly how these clocks are racist. But you have made it clear
that you are not one such person.

If you have no interest in this story, then you have the option to
never again click on it. But what is apparent is that your interest is
in verbal harassment of me. And it is because of behavior such as
yours that I have never posted my actual name here at ssh. I learned
how vile human beings can be to other human beings on internet forums
way back in the 90s.

I had maintained a hope that it was only a certain few members who had
set the nasty environment that permeated this place, and that when they
died off, things might be reasonably respectful. But clearly I was
mistaken. Or rather, I was mistaken in *who* I was identifying as the
source of such vile behavior.

It could also be concluded that violence is inherently embedded as
integral to the human condition, and that if the world population were
reduced to just 2 people, one would kill the other.

Here again, I would like to think that it would make a world of
difference depending on *who* those 2 people were. I am certain that
if it were me, I would have absolutely no violence in words or actions
toward the other. And if a computer were around, that person might
find my decades long records of effort spent on the interwebs motivated
by a desire that things might improve, even if just by a little bit.

...by pointing out things like racism that billions of other people
appear to be perfectly content in ignoring.

You are so keen to see that it is actually the person pointing out
racism who is the problem.

~ CT



It has been recently suggested that certain issues are Off Topic for
this forum.


Yes. Insanity has no place here and this isn't a 'forum'.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine


You're a democrat, aren't you?


No, just an idiot, although he's wandered farther afield into delusion
and, perhaps, paranoia.
Consider his "You won't have CT to kick around any more" manifesto from
29 Nov 2001, where the tried, in a passive/aggressive manner to pass
himself off as an SR-71 driving MiG Killer (Something that only exists in
Martin Caiden books) Test Pilot with a purported list of firsts that even
Caiden wouldn't think credible.

I never thought I'd see the day when Henry Spencer, Pat Flannery, OM,
Derek Lyons, John Beaderstat, et al would be gone, and the corridors echo
with the shrieks of Stuffie, jonathan, and Bbo Hallerb.



--
Pete Stickney
“A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures.” ― Daniel Webster
  #15  
Old February 11th 18, 08:56 PM posted to sci.space.history
Damien Valentine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 3:37:21 PM UTC-5, Dean Markley wrote:

You're a democrat, aren't you?


With respect, I think we can do without partisan insults. When somebody like this starts claiming they invented the question mark, or accuses chestnuts of being lazy, they're well beyond any comprehensible political opinion anyhow.
  #16  
Old February 12th 18, 02:08 AM posted to sci.space.history
Stuf4
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 535
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

From Peter Stickney:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 12:37:19 -0800, Dean Markley wrote:

snip
You're a democrat, aren't you?


No, just an idiot, although he's wandered farther afield into delusion
and, perhaps, paranoia.
Consider his "You won't have CT to kick around any more" manifesto from
29 Nov 2001, where the tried, in a passive/aggressive manner to pass
himself off as an SR-71 driving MiG Killer (Something that only exists in
Martin Caiden books) Test Pilot with a purported list of firsts that even
Caiden wouldn't think credible.

I never thought I'd see the day when Henry Spencer, Pat Flannery, OM,
Derek Lyons, John Beaderstat, et al would be gone, and the corridors echo
with the shrieks of Stuffie, jonathan, and Bbo Hallerb.


You can be as abusive as you want to be. For whatever it is that you get out of it.

As for that old post, there was something from that which pertains to these current batch of posts:

"I have flown multiple simulated shuttle approaches with John Young,"


John Young is no more. But it was sure great to have had him around.
As stated over in that other thread, I was not all that close to him.
But it would have been interesting to hear what he would have had to say about these points about racism. I expect that there are many who were born & bred in the Deep South during his era who were totally blind to such things.

And maybe throughout his years in the military and then at NASA, there was some epiphany that happened in his life that gave him some sense of perspective over the attitudes he was raised with.

And maybe even at some point before taking that last breath, he had the thought...
I could have chosen something other than Stone Mountain.

....or perhaps not.

As for my own accomplishments in my own life, I never got to walk on the Moon. That was the closest I ever got. And along the way, my own epiphany was about how silly such an aspiration was to have. Even though it is fun to fantasize about. It's kinda hard to beat Earth as far as planets go.

It's clear that the most important things in life are relationships, right here, down on Earth. So then the question becomes why would someone persist in engaging in interactions with those who are persistently and consistently abusive? Surely there are better things that someone can do with their time.

The criticism here is somehow being passive-aggressive. But perhaps the accurate problem is more along the line of that thing that has been termed "co-dependence". Being part of the problem by enabling abusive behavior.

And that is a question that I have examined, and rejected. The answer I arrived at is that if I am not contributing to the problem, then I am not responsible for the problem.

SSH is a cesspool. Absolutely atrocious behavior, consistently. Like just today, with calling someone "an idiot", or these other insults having to do with chestnuts, etc.

I have decided that I am perfectly fine with my own actions so long as I am not contributing to the negative aspects. If I can exercise sufficient discipline to maintain my own behavior on the side of being constructive, then the fault for all the nasty stuff is not my own.

In the end, we are all responsible for our own actions.

For those who subscribe to the concept of freewill, even then there is an extremely limited set of variables that we have actual control over. Most of human behavior is a result of genetic & memetic programming. The racist legacy types of stuff that John Young did, I see to be a result of this kind of programming. I did not see him to be a hateful person in any way.

Same with these clocks. All a result of programming, where a disease creeps in, and then gets perpetuated and people get habituated.

Like all of the vile behavior that is so rampant here, across Usenet, and in just about every internet forum, and more generally across the spectrum of human interaction. Or just human behavior.

We are programmed by the examples we are raised around to do things like eat cow muscle for our own pleasure, with absolutely no regard to how horrific slaughterhouses are.

And we use our mouths and our minds as slaughterhouses of people we've decided that we don't like, for whatever reason. Kill with thoughts. Kill with words. It happens every single day. Many many times a day.

All I have control over is myself. And the degree of control that even the most disciplined person has is just a sliver. So that's what I choose to focus on. That sliver.

So part of that sliver manifests in the form of these words that I'm typing, in an effort to invite anyone else who might be interested to possibly have a moment of expanded consciousness, however slight, where awareness to these issues of racism might see the light of day.

I knew going in that the probability is extremely small. I've never let long odds stop me before. Passion and desire are FAR more important than probability.

Take John Young. Of the many billions upon billions of human beings who ever existed, only 12 got to walk on the Moon. And not many more than that ever got to meet those 12. And FAR fewer ever got to be co-workers with those 12. Fewer still as co-workers within the space program, getting to do something like fly space shuttle missions with the person who flew the very first.

So if you go in with the attitude that the odds of that every happening are so slim that it is essentially impossible, then you will be correct. It will never happen.

But if instead you go in with the passion and desire and the hope that it is actually *possible*, regardless of how improbable, then you have just taken the first step of opening up the possibility that this version of reality just might unfold.

And that is how our universe works. It is those who strive toward what is possible who realize the huge breakthroughs and huge accomplishments.

Real life has the potential to be MORE AMAZING than what a person like Martin Caiden can imagine and write into the plot of a fictional book. A perfect example of that happened this week...

Imagine reading a book, or going to see a movie, where this person decides to start a rocket company, and then a decade and a half into this project launches the most powerful rocket in the world, and recovers the boosters to that rocket by landing them back at the launch point in a perfectly synchronized way.

There would be many many people who would have the reaction that this was a bogus story, maybe even demanding their money back from the ticket office for being subjected to such an unrealistic story.

Yet it is not fiction. It is the reality that we live in today, as of this week of February 2018. And it is people like Elon Musk, and people like John Young who make those kinds of things become our reality.

That VERY SLIM SLIVER of humanity that is making a difference. While the vast majority of the rest of humanity is doing mundane stuff like insulting each other on message boards, getting whatever satisfaction that is to be derived from that kind of activity.

So the question is what kind of a person do we want to be? And what kind of legacy do we want to leave behind after we are gone?

I recently heard Keanu Reeves explain his motivation for starting a motorcycle company. Absolutely bizarre for a crazy-wealthy Hollywood actor do get involved in something like that. But it became crystal clear to me that the reason he did this is because he belongs to the same category of people like Musk & Young.

And that is the same category that I choose to strive to be a part of. I want to leave a legacy where someone can google a post I made from 16 years ago and see that it was part of something that someone out there, maybe just one person, might find some inspiration in.

I am totally ok with that. It is my goal to live a full life, and leave a positive legacy. Just today I was contacted by someone who wants me to give guitar lessons to. And I am not going to charge her a penny. The motivation includes the hope that these skills will spread, and perhaps one day she will do the same for someone else. It may lead to absolutely nothing. It might turn out to be an utter waste of my time. But the probability of that will not prevent me from trying.

Just as the probability of my words presented here on this forum are an utter waste of my time does not prevent me from maintaining the hope that they might be helpful to at least one other person out there.

I intend to present the info about these clocks. That too is out of hope that it might be helpful. I won't do that today. Perhaps I will wait a year, as I did with the Debbie Reynolds stuff. Or maybe someone will actually express interest in this particular aspect of space history, in which case I would be glad to share it sooner.

As I had stated on that other thread from so long ago...

Goodbye for now.

~ CT
  #17  
Old February 12th 18, 01:02 PM posted to sci.space.history
Dean Markley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 430
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:56:08 PM UTC-5, Damien Valentine wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 3:37:21 PM UTC-5, Dean Markley wrote:

You're a democrat, aren't you?


With respect, I think we can do without partisan insults. When somebody like this starts claiming they invented the question mark, or accuses chestnuts of being lazy, they're well beyond any comprehensible political opinion anyhow.


Oh, that wasn't a partisan insult. I was merely looking for a context. You know the old saying about arguing with fools. With that in mind, I'll just start ignoring his postings.
  #18  
Old February 12th 18, 01:05 PM posted to sci.space.history
Stuf4
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 535
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

From Dean Markley:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:56:08 PM UTC-5, Damien Valentine wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 3:37:21 PM UTC-5, Dean Markley wrote:

You're a democrat, aren't you?


With respect, I think we can do without partisan insults. When somebody like this starts claiming they invented the question mark, or accuses chestnuts of being lazy, they're well beyond any comprehensible political opinion anyhow.


Oh, that wasn't a partisan insult. I was merely looking for a context. You know the old saying about arguing with fools. With that in mind, I'll just start ignoring his postings.


It was just an insult insult.

~ CT
  #19  
Old February 13th 18, 06:22 PM posted to sci.space.history
Stuf4
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 535
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 12:11:43 PM UTC-6, Stuf4 wrote:
snip
- Long meeting and discussions with the person who invented the
Personal Computer, who is also heavily involved at NASA JSC,
who was nice enough to tell me the whole story of how his company
pulled it off,

snip
History is amazing. But what is perhaps even more amazing is how accurate
history gets so distorted, and downright warped.


THAT right there is a perfect example of how WARPED history can be. One of the most impactful inventions of the 20th century is the personal computer, yet the VAST MAJORITY of people don't know who invented it. Or rather, they *think* they know, but are totally mistaken. It radically changed our world, yet people don't have a clue.

My estimate would be that if 10,000,000 people were asked, maybe one person would know the answer. So I am very grateful to have had extensive interaction with the inventor. We got to the Moon with small-sized computers, and today they are everywhere.

~ CT
  #20  
Old February 14th 18, 06:05 PM posted to sci.space.history
Stuf4
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 535
Default More Examples of Current NASA Racism: Clocks, etc

I wrote:
On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 12:11:43 PM UTC-6, Stuf4 wrote:
snip
- Long meeting and discussions with the person who invented the
Personal Computer, who is also heavily involved at NASA JSC,
who was nice enough to tell me the whole story of how his company
pulled it off,

snip
History is amazing. But what is perhaps even more amazing is how accurate
history gets so distorted, and downright warped.


THAT right there is a perfect example of how WARPED history can be. One of
the most impactful inventions of the 20th century is the personal computer,
yet the VAST MAJORITY of people don't know who invented it. Or rather, they
*think* they know, but are totally mistaken. It radically changed our world,
yet people don't have a clue.

My estimate would be that if 10,000,000 people were asked, maybe one person
would know the answer. So I am very grateful to have had extensive
interaction with the inventor. We got to the Moon with small-sized
computers, and today they are everywhere.


Also forgot to mention...

- That day I was at Steve Wozniak's house. And then having lunch at Apple
headquarters. Woz & I share a special day. My brother would hang out at
his Segway Polo competitions.

- Giving a pitch at Google headquarters on one of my inventions. Having
one-on-one lunch with an important author who is friends with Sergey & Larry.

- Google HQ is next to NASA Ames. There are the lunches with Center Directors
of NASA Ames, sometimes one-on-one, my recommendations being sought, or me
seeing their advice. The most urgent meeting at NASA Ames HQ was in the
wake of 9/11 to pitch a high tech solution to prevent the issue from
happening ever again (single inventor). Ames being responsible for Air
Traffic Control research. Apollo astronaut John Bull was working there
at the time,

- Close interaction over the course of several months with Curt Michel,
another of the 'forgotten Apollo astronauts',

- Pitching a suite of inventions (again, single inventor) during assignment
as a test pilot, being sent to various key locations across the nation to
promote these concepts at Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, Boeing, the
Joint Cockpit Office, Edwards AFB Flight Test Center, etc,

- Pitching another invention (single inventor) to Facebook, given feedback that
moving to California as an fb employee was required for them to pursue it..
(It was during this event that "timeline" was first presented),

- Face-to-face discussion with Guenter Wendt. Also Peter Diamandis,
Bob Zubrin, Curt Newport, Sergei Krikalev, Richard Garriott,
Andrew Chaikin ...face-to-face discussion with maybe half a dozen members of
this forum, to include close working relationship with adjacent offices at
major aerospace company, to include social interaction like lunches, dinners,
getting together to perform music (I'm glad to know that people are MUCH
nicer interacting in person than what typically happens here virtually),

- Visiting Nancy Pelosi's office to give her information on another idea
(single inventor) with a very positive impact to not only her voter base, but
her entire state, and inspirational to the entire country and people of every
nation. One of the Senators from California, a close friend, was very
impressed with the idea,

- Close family ties to top official in a foreign government. Being with
Eduard Shevardnadze, Jim Baker, Nelson Mandela, Barry Goldwater, having
Tom DeLay come by my house (again, the same house frequented by Buzz),

- Regularly visiting the house of one of the grandkids of Prescott Bush, so
a close relation to a couple presidents, governors, etc,

- Hanging out at Franklin Chang-Diaz's very nice lakeshore house, being a
houseguest at Lockheed Martin VP, him visiting my house, visiting the
spectacular lakeshore houses of other astronauts like the Fisher's and
Jerry Linenger, etc (houses like Neil & Buzz's were quite modest by
comparison),

- Living in the same neighborhood as the bombardier who dropped the last
atomic bomb, being friends with one of Paul Tibbets' close relatives.
Being entrusted with the delivery of megaton nuclear bombs & missiles,
certified as an instructor to teach others to do the same,

- Getting to know Ilan Ramon during his days as a fighter pilot, years before
NASA ever looked at him (he was involved in destroying the Iraqi nuclear
power plant in '81), then helping to train him for STS-107,

- Getting to know several astronauts long before they became astronauts,
going as far back as being teenagers together, being close friends with
winners of things like the Mackay Trophy, here too going back as far as
being teenagers together,

- Being close friends with crazy wealthy multi-billionaire families, like
motion picture tycoon (responsible for making Apollo 13, among many many
others), here too going back to teenage years. These are people with
an elevator in their house, kinda fun to ride,

- Friends with person who started a multi-billion dollar insurance company
(friends since teenage years), going through parachute training together,

- Friends with others since teenage years who are "mere" multi-millionaires,
one making their money in high tech stock options, another in medical,

- Friends with Olympic medalist, going back to our childhood, and schoolmates
with other multiple Olympic gold medalists (six golds between two of them,
let alone silvers),

- Having personal friends who are test pilots on SpaceShipTwo, going back to
when we were teenagers,

None of these people were involved with the invention of the PC. Not Woz. Not the others. It did not happen in California. (Although the inventors did work hard to try to get California involved, Intel failed to come through.) As indicated earlier, it was actually NASA people who pulled it off. Kind of crazy that NASA does not promote the story themselves. It's a great story.

- One-on-one discussions with John Young about selecting and developing
computers for the Space Shuttle were interesting as well.

~ CT
 




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