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  #131  
Old June 30th 04, 04:59 PM
Scott Hedrick
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"Ami Silberman" wrote in message
...
Although in the Florida case, the list of felons, prepared by a private
contractor, was highly inaccurate and lead to thousands of voters being
purged from the list, without prior notification. That is what Rick was
referring to.


Right. Surely there is a penalty in the contractor's contract for such
error...but I won't hold my breath while someone looks for it.


  #132  
Old June 30th 04, 05:00 PM
Scott Hedrick
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"Ami Silberman" wrote in message
...
(or being related to ringleaders, or just
being near ringleaders, or just standing around)


Amazing how times change, eh? Those in Gitmo would say NOT.


  #133  
Old June 30th 04, 09:10 PM
Andrew Gray
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On 2004-06-30, Scott Hedrick wrote:

"Ami Silberman" wrote in message
...
Although in the Florida case, the list of felons, prepared by a private
contractor, was highly inaccurate and lead to thousands of voters being
purged from the list, without prior notification. That is what Rick was
referring to.


Right. Surely there is a penalty in the contractor's contract for such
error...but I won't hold my breath while someone looks for it.


I'm confident that the penalty clause will be strict, stringent, and
ensure they are fully compensated for any expenses arising from the
****up. And then they'll get to be sole bidder on the next one.

--
-Andrew Gray

  #134  
Old June 30th 04, 09:56 PM
Ami Silberman
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"Scott Hedrick" wrote in message
...

"Ami Silberman" wrote in message
...
(or being related to ringleaders, or just
being near ringleaders, or just standing around)


Amazing how times change, eh? Those in Gitmo would say NOT.

One big difference is that the commander at Gitmo is not:
a. interested in assimilating the prisoners into American (or Western, or
civilized) life. (This, of course, was viewed as acceptable in that day and
age.)
b. to that end, providing education (including technical, vocational, and
religious)
c. providing escorted visits off-base (including ocean sailing)
d. providing art materials (the Ft. Marion prisoners were encouraged to
produce handicrafts, including drawings, for sale. They originally were
taught the rudiments of drawing by officers' wives in exchange for archery
lessons. (This is arguably the start of Native American Painting -- most of
the early comercial plains artists such as Paul Zotam got their start either
at Ft. Marion or were related to prisoners at Ft. Marion.) Most of the art
was related to life on the plains, but some of the most interesting books
(they were usually colored pencil in a composition or ledger book) dealt
with life at the fort.
e. Allowed, in the second year, the prisoners to provide their own guard
force.
f. Conduct a mock buffalo hunt (using a cow as a buffalo).
g. Encouraging corresponance between the prisoners and their friends at
home. (Much of this was in terms of drawings, since the prisoners by and
large were illiterate when they arrived.)
h. Encouraging some of the prisoners, after their release (IIRC they were
there a total of three years) to continue their studys and to continue to
correspond with him -- many of them did.
i. IIRC, of the 72 or so prisoners taken to Ft. Marion, all but one survived
the experience. (One jumped from the train on the way there.)
j. The commandant, Captain Pratt, believed in the basic goodness of his
charges. He had also spent the previous eight years as an officer in a unit
which included both Afro-American and Native American troops, (10th Cavalry,
plus attached native scouts), and had watched what a muddle the Bureau of
Indian Affairs had made of things. He also was the commander at Ft. Marion
during the entire incarceration, and later was the superintendent at the
Carlisle Indian School, which he persuaded the Federal government to create.

Of course, there are probably a lot of differences between at least some of
the prisoners at Gitmo and all of those at Ft. Marion in terms of depth of
ideology -- the prisoners at Ft. Marion were largely there as hostages
against their tribes bad behavior, and the tribes, which by then had been
confined to reservations, were rebelling, in part, against mismanagement by
the BIA.

See some details about the school (and Ft. Marion) at
http://home.epix.net/~landis/histry.html

I know a lot about this because it was one of my father's research
interests.


  #135  
Old June 30th 04, 10:03 PM
Ami Silberman
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"Ami Silberman" wrote in message
...

"Scott Hedrick" wrote in message
...

"Ami Silberman" wrote in message
...
(or being related to ringleaders, or just
being near ringleaders, or just standing around)


Amazing how times change, eh? Those in Gitmo would say NOT.

One big difference is that the commander at Gitmo is not:


A lot about Ft. Marion snipped.

I don't want to make it look, however, like I'm unaware that life on the
reservations was pretty harsh, with BIA agents (and contractors) given
virtual unlimited authority, with corruption rampant, and with forced
relocation and assimilation of children through the Indian School System
(including Carlisle), which continued until, IIRC, the 1950s. A reference to
how bad the system was can be found in the following book review:

http://oyate.org/books-to-avoid/myHeart.html


  #136  
Old June 30th 04, 10:40 PM
Jonathan Silverlight
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In message , Ami Silberman
writes

I don't want to make it look, however, like I'm unaware that life on the
reservations was pretty harsh, with BIA agents (and contractors) given
virtual unlimited authority, with corruption rampant, and with forced
relocation and assimilation of children through the Indian School System
(including Carlisle), which continued until, IIRC, the 1950s. A reference to
how bad the system was can be found in the following book review:

http://oyate.org/books-to-avoid/myHeart.html


Perhaps I'm missing the point, but isn't that review about how bad the
book is? In other words, can you trust anything it says?
--
What have they got to hide? Release the full Beagle 2 report.
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
  #137  
Old July 1st 04, 03:33 PM
Ami Silberman
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"Jonathan Silverlight" wrote
in message ...
In message , Ami Silberman
writes

I don't want to make it look, however, like I'm unaware that life on the
reservations was pretty harsh, with BIA agents (and contractors) given
virtual unlimited authority, with corruption rampant, and with forced
relocation and assimilation of children through the Indian School System
(including Carlisle), which continued until, IIRC, the 1950s. A reference

to
how bad the system was can be found in the following book review:

http://oyate.org/books-to-avoid/myHeart.html


Perhaps I'm missing the point, but isn't that review about how bad the
book is? In other words, can you trust anything it says?
--

I'm citing the review's description of the BIA schools, not what the review
attributes to the book. It was the handiest reference that I could find
off-hand and a nice encapsulation. I have a passing knowledge about the
Indian schools due to second-hand effect from my dad's research. (Growing up
in the house of a researcher often ends up with a lot of learning via
osmosis.)


 




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