Mars colonization

SpaceX plans on building Starship to transport Mars colonist and
equipment for a Mars colony. But they mostly expect other companies and
organizations to handle the actual establishment of a base on Mars :
habitats, greenhouses... Starship seems to be advancing well, but I
haven't heard much about others working on the necessities for living on
Mars. Have any of you heard about others having such plans?


Alain Fournier

In article , says...

SpaceX plans on building Starship to transport Mars colonist and
equipment for a Mars colony. But they mostly expect other companies and
organizations to handle the actual establishment of a base on Mars :
habitats, greenhouses... Starship seems to be advancing well, but I
haven't heard much about others working on the necessities for living on
Mars. Have any of you heard about others having such plans?

Starship has yet to prove itself, so there really aren't any concrete
(i.e. funded) plans to use it to go to Mars and back.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

On Mar/1/2021 at 07:43, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article , says...

SpaceX plans on building Starship to transport Mars colonist and
equipment for a Mars colony. But they mostly expect other companies and
organizations to handle the actual establishment of a base on Mars :
habitats, greenhouses... Starship seems to be advancing well, but I
haven't heard much about others working on the necessities for living on
Mars. Have any of you heard about others having such plans?

Starship has yet to prove itself, so there really aren't any concrete
(i.e. funded) plans to use it to go to Mars and back.

Jeff

I would guess that if someone, see for instance
https://nunatsiaq.com/stories/articl...in-gjoa-haven/
adapted greenhouses built for the arctic to the needs of a colony on
Mars today, they could get very good shipping agreements from SpaceX to
deliver them to Mars. They could probably get their greenhouses to Mars
for two years worth of veggies on Mars. After the two years they start
selling veggies on Mars at a profit. If you wait until SpaceX is ready
to go to Mars, you won't be getting as good a deal.

I think companies who act now might make big profits. Those who wait
will have a harder time. Elon wants humans on Mars soon. If you want to
help him, I think you can have a good deal.


Alain Fournier

On 2/28/2021 7:27 PM, Alain Fournier wrote:
SpaceX plans on building Starship to transport Mars colonist and
equipment for a Mars colony. But they mostly expect other companies and
organizations to handle the actual establishment of a base on Mars :
habitats, greenhouses... Starship seems to be advancing well, but I
haven't heard much about others working on the necessities for living on
Mars. Have any of you heard about others having such plans?

Well there was the Mars One Project that failed in bankruptcy and some
degree of scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_One

The only concrete example I can think of was the Biosphere 2 Project,
that built a prototype standalone habitat out in the Arizona Desert. It
was supposed to be self-sustaining, needing nothing from the outside
once the airlock hatch was sealed. An experiment was conducted that
housed a crews for one year without breaking the containment. If I
recall correctly, the project met with mixed success (there were two
attempts, the 2nd successful). With the main experiment complete, I
think it has been turned into some type of museum and exhibit by the
University of Arizona which purchased it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2

Dave

IMHO one of the biggest blows to the concept was went it was discovered
that the chemical composition of Martian soil sampled at one of the
lander sites (I forget which) showed that the soil contains poisonous
compounds that would either prevent plant growth or cause grown plants
to become inedible. Therefore either soils will have to be transported
from Earth or food grown hydroponically. I suppose one could hold up
hope that with an extensive surface exploration program, maybe one might
find a spot on Mars that is otherwise. Seems unlikely from where we
stand today.

Dave

On Mar/3/2021 at 09:19, David Spain wrote :
IMHO one of the biggest blows to the concept was went it was discovered
that the chemical composition of Martian soil sampled at one of the
lander sites (I forget which) showed that the soil contains poisonous
compounds that would either prevent plant growth or cause grown plants
to become inedible. Therefore either soils will have to be transported
from Earth or food grown hydroponically. I suppose one could hold up
hope that with an extensive surface exploration program, maybe one might
find a spot on Mars that is otherwise. Seems unlikely from where we
stand today.

I'm not sure what you're talking about up there with the chemical
composition of Martian soil. I've heard that the soil is too salty. If
you have a cite for some information I don't have please provide it.
Soil that is too salty isn't a show stopper, just a hassle.

Here is how you would start a greenhouse operation on Mars. First you
plant a few rugged plant, let's call them weeds, that can survive in
harsh conditions. If the soil is really too difficult for plants, you
can bring from Earth a little soil to start; you mix that Earth soil
with some Martian soil. Once your weeds have grown, you cut them and put
them in the compost pile (really a bio-digester instead of a compost
pile, you don't want to wait years for your compost). Your weeds have
extracted some nutrients from the Martian soil, so you can get more
fertile soil from your compost than what you brought from Earth. The
nutrient depleted Martian soil can be discarded. You start again with
another batch of Martian soil. Because you had more fertile soil to mix
with Martian soil than the first time, you can harvest more weeds than
the first time. Repeat... Once you have enough compost you can start
growing tomatoes or what not. You still continue to grow weeds because
you want to increase your amount of fertile soil in order to increase
the produce crop sizes. For a fixed amount of produce you shouldn't have
to add new soil from the weeds, the nutrients for the next generations
of produce can come from the compost from the unused parts of the plants
and the ... ugh ... manure the colonist make.


Alain Fournier

On 3/3/2021 3:39 PM, Alain Fournier wrote:
On Mar/3/2021 at 09:19, David Spain wrote :
IMHO one of the biggest blows to the concept was went it was
discovered that the chemical composition of Martian soil sampled at
one of the lander sites (I forget which) showed that the soil contains
poisonous compounds that would either prevent plant growth or cause
grown plants to become inedible. Therefore either soils will have to
be transported from Earth or food grown hydroponically. I suppose one
could hold up hope that with an extensive surface exploration program,
maybe one might find a spot on Mars that is otherwise. Seems unlikely
from where we stand today.

I'm not sure what you're talking about up there with the chemical
composition of Martian soil. I've heard that the soil is too salty. If
you have a cite for some information I don't have please provide it.
Soil that is too salty isn't a show stopper, just a hassle.


OK, you made me look it up. But you could have too. Chemical composition
of Martian contains a high degree of percholrate compounds that contain
cholrine. Including calcium perchlorate. In addition the most common
silicates in Martian dust are olivine, pyroexene and feldspar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_soil

This is not the pattern of chemistry used on Earth where soils are
typically infused with Nitrogen and Potassium in bacteria laden loam to
increase plant yields.

So I guess it depends largely on your definition of 'salts', but we're
not talking Sodium Chloride here.

Maybe you can grow a crop of water hyacinths to filter the percholrates
out of the Martian soil (see link above). But it isn't as simple a
process as adding dried human dung as laid out in the book and movie The
Martian. Andy Weir has written and admitted as much.

I'll discount the killer UV radiation that floods the planet surface,
since that can and will be filtered out in the habitat. Either via the
dome material or an underground cave.

When you can start growing food crops in perchlorate laden soils, why
not send a link to your results here. I'd be very interested.

Dave

Le 01/03/2021 Ã* 01:27, Alain Fournier a écritÂ*:
SpaceX plans on building Starship to transport Mars colonist and
equipment for a Mars colony. But they mostly expect other companies and
organizations to handle the actual establishment of a base on Mars :
habitats, greenhouses... Starship seems to be advancing well, but I
haven't heard much about others working on the necessities for living on
Mars. Have any of you heard about others having such plans?


Alain Fournier

All this "To mars" stuff is just vaporwware. Humans have no technology
to send any of hem to mars now, and (luckily) they will not have it in
the next 20 years.

In article , says...

Le 01/03/2021 à 01:27, Alain Fournier a écrit*:
SpaceX plans on building Starship to transport Mars colonist and
equipment for a Mars colony. But they mostly expect other companies and
organizations to handle the actual establishment of a base on Mars :
habitats, greenhouses... Starship seems to be advancing well, but I
haven't heard much about others working on the necessities for living on
Mars. Have any of you heard about others having such plans?

All this "To mars" stuff is just vaporwware. Humans have no technology
to send any of hem to mars now, and (luckily) they will not have it in
the next 20 years.

I personally think we'll see humans set foot on Mars in less than 20
years. Actual colonies on Mars will take a bit longer. ;-)

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

On Mar/8/2021 at 14:19, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article , says...

Le 01/03/2021 à 01:27, Alain Fournier a écrit*:
SpaceX plans on building Starship to transport Mars colonist and
equipment for a Mars colony. But they mostly expect other companies and
organizations to handle the actual establishment of a base on Mars :
habitats, greenhouses... Starship seems to be advancing well, but I
haven't heard much about others working on the necessities for living on
Mars. Have any of you heard about others having such plans?

All this "To mars" stuff is just vaporwware. Humans have no technology
to send any of hem to mars now, and (luckily) they will not have it in
the next 20 years.

I personally think we'll see humans set foot on Mars in less than 20
years. Actual colonies on Mars will take a bit longer. ;-)

Depending on what is your definition of a colony, the first one could
very well be in less than 20 years. I personally think that in less than
20 years there will be some people living on Mars and considering Mars
as their home or some people living on Mars with no planed date for
their return to Earth. That is a rather weak definition of what is a
colony, and even so, it is not a sure thing that it will happen within
20 years, but I think it will happen.

For a stronger definition of a colony, such as a group living on Mars
and capable of growing and surviving indefinitely without receiving
supplies from Earth, yes I would say that will take more than 20 years.


Alain Fournier