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Big Bang Busted in Science Classes for High Schools
Hi Nightbat The search for the truth is what science is all about.Best
to leave out words like "facts" Beast to think in every direction,as long as it makes good science. The BB theory answers more questions than the steady state theory. Gamow theorized that if there was a BB its temperature would now be 3K Many years later the universe's temperature was measured at 2.73K(see what I mean.) Nightbat a better theory would answer more questions. The BB is the best theory man has come up with. It has lots of good physics in its favor. It fits with GR,QM,and the string theory. It fits in with my density of the universe theory.(had for years) I theorize the smallest gravity can squeeze the mass of our known universe is the size of a Planck length,and that is in all of its spatial dimensions. That thinking fits well with the string theory as to the dimension of a singularity. Bert |
#2
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Hey Night
Don't write off ol' Dr. Jai just yet. He's drawing from the ancient Vedic (pre-Hindu) mythologies which had some pretty high level intuition behind them. The 'eternal return' format is implied in the 'Life and Death of Brahma' (later amended to the 'In-breath and out-breath of Brahma') which corresponds to the modern Big Bang/ Big Crunch concept. Each cycle is marked by a period known as a 'Kalpa', overseen by the gods Brahma (the creator) and Shiva (the destroyer). At present, we would be somewhere in the expansion phase of our great 'Kalpa'. Beyond this cyclic level of 'Kalpas' is the overarching domain of Vishnu (the Sustainer) which would correspond to the CBB (continuous BB) or the freon cycle in Zinni's fridge. These two referance frames comprize the Vedic trinity of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva. Also those ancient dudes fully understood the material universe as a secondary phenomenon, which they called maya or 'illusion', which corresponds to Wolter's tagalong 'dustbunny'. They would get quite a chuckle out of the modern void-space paradigm(VSP). oc |
#3
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From S.S.Shastry:
Most important is to know the existence of an eternal innermost self around which everything 'seems' to be cyclic. As a late great friend and mentor of mine once said, IF there is a such a central, perpetually running 'Engine' from which Creation proceeds and is eventually re-ingested, such an 'Engine', if it had voice and could speak, could rightly proclaim, "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." If this astonishing knowledge which is central to scriptures is not understood then hardly anything substantial is served by them. My friend, being reared as a Mormon, got kicked out of the Mormon church for the heresy of stating that God can be perceived directly, without need of an intermediary (meaning the church elders). Even in physics, singularity is that eternal innermost self around which everything 'seems' to be cyclic. "Singularity" as a noun can refer to that dimensionless point of infinite density and zero volume at the core of a black hole. There can also be the _State_ of Singularity. My friend saw this as the natural extension of quantum nonlocality (already proven in the lab BTW), and called it 'non-pluralty' or the Law of One. It would correspond to David Bohm's 'Implicate Order', the Primary Reality underlying the material universe. And so, while singularity is the truth the universe has to be understood as it is, illusory and not untruth. Yeah, although the material universe is 'maya' or illusion, it is a very REAL illusion (the tagalong 'dustbunny' as my friend called it). OK Zinni, let's hear your retort now. BTW, we're still awaiting your treatise on why c is constant under the 'no medium' premise. oc |
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"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message
... As a late great friend and mentor of mine once said, IF there is a such a central, perpetually running 'Engine' from which Creation proceeds and is eventually re-ingested, such an 'Engine', if it had voice and could speak, could rightly proclaim, "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." And IF this perpetually running 'Engine' had big black ears, a round black nose and four fingers on each hand, it could rightly proclaim, "I am Mickey Mouse." |
#5
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From JohnZ:
"...I am Mickey Mouse." Hey that's a cool mantra. And about your speed too. C'mon, why is the speed of light fixed if there is 'no medium'? oc |
#6
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From Nightbat:
...truth is verifiable frame, measurable, observable, directly or indirectly, and hasn't been falsified to date. Illusion is fantasy including sci fi unless someone manages to make the unreal, real. Night, as the late great Johnny Cash once asked, "What is Truth?". Take the analogy (again) of the fish in the deep ocean; he's heard this recurring theory about something called the "ocean" which supposedly is all-pervading, life-giving, and has enormous hydrostatic pressure. Yet he has no sensory perception of it, and therefore concludes the "ocean" is fantasy, nonsense, and 'nothing'. That is his Truth, his reality. There is no 'ocean', period. Similarly, we are sensorially 'blind' to the "ocean" of the spatial medium, and conclude it is functionally void and 'nothing'. That is our truth, our reality. There is 'no medium'. Yet a simple bathroom scale gives a direct analog readout of *something*. And the 'something', by its observable effects, appears to be an accelerating _flow_ and the readout matter's *resistance* to this flow. Thus it fulfills your requirement for "a verifiable frame, measurable, observable, directly or indirectly, and hasn't been falsified to date." What's more, this 'something' is substantial enough to crush massive stars into BHs. And untruth is no matter how you fudge the results most other scientist's can see through the BS. And 'What If', after cutting thru all the BS, gravity IS exactly what it appears to be and behaves as????? OK Zinni now have at it. oc |
#7
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"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message ... Yet a simple bathroom scale gives a direct analog readout of *something*. And the 'something', by its observable effects, appears to be an accelerating _flow_ and the readout matter's *resistance* to this flow. Stand on a bathroom scales & measure your weight. Stand on same scales in a cave & measure your weight again. Observe how the infalling space gets captured by the rock above your head and reduces the weight shown on the scale. Care to provide calculations for this Bill? You have 3 days 'coz I'm off on vacation soon. |
#8
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From OG:
Stand on a bathroom scales & measure your weight. Stand on same scales in a cave & measure your weight again. Observe how the infalling space gets captured by the rock above your head and reduces the weight shown on the scale. You're absolutely right OG. Very perceptual of you. The instant the inflow goes below surface (or datum line), there is now gravitating mass *behind* (i.e., above) the flow. Just for purpose of illustration (this was done in discussions with Painius prior to your and Zinni's appearance on the NG), take a column of spatial flow 12" in diameter. It's flowing vertically into the surface, accelerating to 11.2 km/sec, (Earth's escape velocity) at the instant it hits surface datum. As soon as it goes below datum, there is gravitating mass behind and _to the sides_ of the column, causing it to begin decelertaing and to diverge laterally. And as you correctly observe, your 'weight' is going to be less below surface than at surface, and for the reason you stated. As the column descends deeper and deeper, the more mass lies behind and to the sides, the more the column diverges and decelerates, showing less and less directional preferance. Finally at Eartth center, all directional preferance is lost; 'weight' is zero while hydrostatic pressure is maximum from all the 'weight' pressing in from above. The flow itself is into the seat of the strong force in the nuclei of all the Earth's constituent atoms. Herein lies the unification of gravity and the strong force in Wolter's 'Unified Field of Spatial Flows'. oc |
#9
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"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message...
... From OG: Stand on a bathroom scales & measure your weight. Stand on same scales in a cave & measure your weight again. Observe how the infalling space gets captured by the rock above your head and reduces the weight shown on the scale. You're absolutely right OG. Very perceptual of you. The instant the inflow goes below surface (or datum line), there is now gravitating mass *behind* (i.e., above) the flow. Just for purpose of illustration (this was done in discussions with Painius prior to your and Zinni's appearance on the NG), take a column of spatial flow 12" in diameter. It's flowing vertically into the surface, accelerating to 11.2 km/sec, (Earth's escape velocity) at the instant it hits surface datum. As soon as it goes below datum, there is gravitating mass behind and _to the sides_ of the column, causing it to begin decelertaing and to diverge laterally. And as you correctly observe, your 'weight' is going to be less below surface than at surface, and for the reason you stated. As the column descends deeper and deeper, the more mass lies behind and to the sides, the more the column diverges and decelerates, showing less and less directional preferance. Finally at Eartth center, all directional preferance is lost; 'weight' is zero while hydrostatic pressure is maximum from all the 'weight' pressing in from above. The flow itself is into the seat of the strong force in the nuclei of all the Earth's constituent atoms. Herein lies the unification of gravity and the strong force in Wolter's 'Unified Field of Spatial Flows'. oc 'Lo Bill -- The nuclear "strong force" is believed to exist solely to bond together all those positively charged protons, thereby overcoming the effects of the electrical repulsion of these charges. Moreover, scientists at present believe that the strong force has absolutely no influence out beyond the confines of the atomic nucleus. You seem to be saying that the strong force is responsible for the effects of gravity that we observe? How did Wolter come to this conclusion? What train of thought led him to connect the strong nuclear force with gravity? And it would seem to be a simple matter to show this connection using mathematics. If the connection is so obvious, then why hasn't some mathematician somewhere already verified it? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- "Oh give me please the Universe keys That unlock all those mysteries!" You pay your fees, you find some keys, That keeps you always groping. "Oh give me please the Happiness keys That ease the pain of biting fleas!" Today you seize you need no keys, That door is always open. Paine Ellsworth |
#10
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From Painius:
The nuclear "strong force" is believed to exist solely to bond together all those positively charged protons, thereby overcoming the effects of the electrical repulsion of these charges. Moreover, scientists at present believe that the strong force has absolutely no influence out beyond the confines of the atomic nucleus. The key term is "_believed_ not to exist outside the nucleus". Yet what is magnetism if not the spatial inflow into the _poles_ of the proton.. into the seat of the strong nuclear force within? Seems sorta like a no brainer. Magnetism's 'sign', i.e., its 'N' and 'S' polarity, is determined by spin direction of the inflow. You seem to be saying that the strong force is responsible for the effects of gravity that we observe? How did Wolter come to this conclusion? 'Local' gravity, the kind we're familiar with, is the collective 'influence at a distance' of the the strong force, minus the spin component of magnetism. Thus gravity is monopolar. In the foregoing you also have the unification of magnetism in the Unified Field of Spatial Flows. What train of thought led him to connect the strong nuclear force with gravity? See above. Exactly the same conclusion was reached years later by Lindner, Warren et al. And it would seem to be a simple matter to show this connection using mathematics. And what if we were operating under the Roman numeral system? Would we be forever barred and banned from understanding unification? Seems more like the 'primacy of math' fixation is barring understanding. BTW, Wolter's 'train of thought' regarding the the proton's magnetic bipolarity began with _gravitic bipolarity_ of every (spinning) black hole, which again seems like a no brainer. The spin direction of the 'bathtub drain' inflows into the _poles_ of a BH will dictate its 'N' and 'S' gravitic polarity or 'sign'.. making the BH a true _gravitic dipole_ in space. Wolter saw the proton as the microscale BH analog, its magnetic bipolarity the analog of the BH's gravitic bipolarity. (Remember that old basketball illustration; hold the ball up and rotate it so the 'N' pole is turning cw viewed face-on, and simultaneously the 'S' pole is turning ccw viewed face-on, yet the whole ensemble rotates in a unitary direction.) This bipolarity of BHs and protons is rudimentary to unification under the CBB model. And it don't take no steenkin' mathg to grasp the concept. At signifigant distance from the BH, its bipolarity drops below resolution and it appears as a monopolar point source. And meanwhile our familiar monopolar gravity, operating across astronomical distances and mediating Keplerian and Newtonian laws, has its genesis in the seat of the strong nuclear force. Now let's hear Zinni's esteemed rebuttal. oc |
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