CHANDRAYAAN = ? Photoshop + cut and paste ?

What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

"BradGuth" wrote in message...
...

What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Patience, Brad, patience! g

I don't think it's even been turned on yet, has it?...

http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/Nov08_2008.htm

And when they turn it on, it will take some time for
the Indian scientists to study their data and photos
without pressure from the outside world.

Kudos to the Indian Space Research Organization
(ISRO) space agency for a magnificent Selenar
exploratory mission!

Note in the above article the nomenclatures:

"periselene" and "aposelene"!

I L O V E T H I S U N I V E R S E !

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: "The cause is hidden. The effect is visible to all."
Ovid

P.P.S.: http://yummycake.secretsgolden.com
http://garden-of-ebooks.blogspot.com
http://painellsworth.net

On Nov 11, 12:57 am, "Painius" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message...

...



What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Patience, Brad, patience! g

I don't think it's even been turned on yet, has it?...

http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/Nov08_2008.htm

And when they turn it on, it will take some time for
the Indian scientists to study their data and photos
without pressure from the outside world.

Kudos to the Indian Space Research Organization
(ISRO) space agency for a magnificent Selenar
exploratory mission!

Note in the above article the nomenclatures:

"periselene" and "aposelene"!

We know that at least some if not most of the 11 science instruments
have been turned on, and their having sent back valid data, including
radiation status and otherwise images from their high resolution
cameras. Why the delay or need-to-know policy?

Either they have such science data and observationology worthy images
or they don’t. There’s no need of such information being studied or
much less modified before release to the general public that’s paying
for everything.

For example; What was the environment while within the Earth-Moon L1?

What sorts of bandpass or cutoff filters are currently being used on
behalf of their monochrome terrain imaging camera?

What is the dynamic range of either monochrome or color camera?

~ BG

http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg


"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Nov 11, 12:57 am, "Painius" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message...

...



What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Patience, Brad, patience! g

I don't think it's even been turned on yet, has it?...

http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/Nov08_2008.htm

And when they turn it on, it will take some time for
the Indian scientists to study their data and photos
without pressure from the outside world.

Kudos to the Indian Space Research Organization
(ISRO) space agency for a magnificent Selenar
exploratory mission!

Note in the above article the nomenclatures:

"periselene" and "aposelene"!

We know that at least some if not most of the 11 science instruments
have been turned on, and their having sent back valid data, including
radiation status and otherwise images from their high resolution
cameras. Why the delay or need-to-know policy?

Either they have such science data and observationology worthy images
or they don’t. There’s no need of such information being studied or
much less modified before release to the general public that’s paying
for everything.

For example; What was the environment while within the Earth-Moon L1?

What sorts of bandpass or cutoff filters are currently being used on
behalf of their monochrome terrain imaging camera?

What is the dynamic range of either monochrome or color camera?

~ BG

On Nov 11, 6:44 am, "harmony" wrote:
http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg

Interesting. Why exactly did they intentionally degrade their image?
(it worked perfectly while imaging Earth, even with narrow bandpass
filtering)

Was there too much Van Allan or Magnetosphere radiation, too much of
those UV secondary/recoil photons or perhaps too much of the sodium
saturated atmosphere to deal with?

When do we get to review their raw TIFF or fully uncompressed JPEG
formats?

Even GIF format will do nicely. So why bother to PhotoShop anything,
much less restrict the otherwise terrific dynamic range of either
monochrome or color images?

Why haven't they specified the filter(s) employed per given image?

Btw, why is their image archive “Directory Listing Denied”?
http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...omchandrayaan/

~ BG

BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 11, 6:44 am, "harmony" wrote:
http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg

Interesting. Why exactly did they intentionally degrade their image?
(it worked perfectly while imaging Earth, even with narrow bandpass
filtering)

Was there too much Van Allan or Magnetosphere radiation, too much of
those UV secondary/recoil photons or perhaps too much of the sodium
saturated atmosphere to deal with?


What 'sodium saturated atmosphere' are you talking about?

On Nov 10, 10:37 pm, BradGuth wrote:
What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Why the delay or nondisclosure policy? (NASA damage control?)

Because we’ve been specifically informed by ISRO, we know that at
least some if not most of the 11 science instruments had been turned
on for quite some time (since having left LEO), and their having sent
back valid data, including radiation status and otherwise images from
their high resolution cameras (most likely hundreds if not thousands
of images by now). So why the media delay or need-to-know policy?

Either they have accomplished such science and having received valid
data and many observationology worthy images via Chandrayaan-1, or
they don’t. There’s no need of such information being studied or much
less modified before release to the general public that’s paying for
everything.

For example; What was their go-between space environment, especially
while within the Earth-Moon L1?

What sorts of spectrum bandpass or cutoff filters are currently being
used on behalf of their monochrome terrain mapping camera? (in other
words; we’ll need to know the optic or bandpass specs of each image)

What is the A/D limited dynamic range of either monochrome or color
camera?

What is each of their CCD’s raw dynamic range and spectrum bandwidth
or scope?

In other words, why not impress us by way of ISRO telling or otherwise
sharing in exactly what we’re getting for our hard earned public loot?


On Nov 12, 2:44 am, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article ,

Mike Dworetsky wrote:

See what it says about this on that page. As the satellite has not yet
reached its final orbit, it may not be switched on yet. Certainly, a period
of a few days or weeks is normally needed for engineering checks on the
instruments.

The word I'm getting (from one of the instrument PIs, just down the
corridor) is that it's about 10 days until the science instruments start
taking data. There'll be a period of calibration following that, of
course, but the data should be coming in from then.

--
Andy Breen Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Thank you for that informative feedback. However, what's to calibrate
about a camera, other than selecting the best image out of hundreds or
thousands that are using whatever optical filtering or bandpass
configuration for achieving their best affect?

In other words, why select the worse possible image or much less
intentionally degrade a given image?

http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg

That initial moon image released to the public looks as though they
were using a special affects fog inducing filter. The other image of
Earth by that same terrain camera was crystal clear (or was that one
of Earth via their color camera with all of the color/hue saturation
excluded), but was there some kind of lens protective but yet optical
plate or cap that had not been opened up for the look-see at our moon?

BTW, is their color camera broken or also in need of "calibration"?

Besides the following links; can we get a full disclosure listing of
these optical filters and their plan of action for using them
individually or as stacked elements?

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/hysi.htm
http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/chandra...oads/hysi.html

It sounds like each and every “Hyper Spectral Imaging” obtained image
can be as color/hue saturated as it ever needs to be, especially
effective within their extended sensor dynamic range that’s apparently
a mystery even to ISRO. Other than a basic grayscale 8 bit
calibration, and thus limited to 8 bits per color wavelength, whereas
you might think they’d use at least 12 bit A/D, although as great as
16 bit should have been doable. However 8*64 contiguous bands = 512
bits worth of full spectral image data per composite image is
certainly a lot of color/hue saturation data to work with.

It’ll be interesting as to see how much excluding of the blue to
violet spectrums get moderated or entirely taken out of those images
before getting released to the public domain. As a matter of purely
scientific interest, I’d like to see all 64 hue/spectral bands as is
per given image. In other words, 64 frames of 8 bits each per image
will do nicely.

The terrain mapping camera with 10 bit usage of it’s APS dynamic range
is certainly good enough depending on what sort of optical bandpass
filters get utilized.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/tmc.htm
The “spectral region of 0.5 to 0.85 µm” certainly excludes the bluish
hue saturation or mineral fluorescence created by all of the UV
secondary/recoil (black light) affect coming off that reactive lunar
surface.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Nov 12, 6:28 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 10, 10:37 pm, BradGuth wrote:

What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Why the delay or nondisclosure policy? (NASA damage control?)

Because we’ve been specifically informed by ISRO, we know that at
least some if not most of the 11 science instruments had been turned
on for quite some time (since having left LEO), and their having sent
back valid data, including radiation status and otherwise images from
their high resolution cameras (most likely hundreds if not thousands
of images by now). So why the media delay or need-to-know policy?

Either they have accomplished such science and having received valid
data and many observationology worthy images via Chandrayaan-1, or
they don’t. There’s no need of such information being studied or much
less modified before release to the general public that’s paying for
everything.

For example; What was their go-between space environment, especially
while within the Earth-Moon L1?

What sorts of spectrum bandpass or cutoff filters are currently being
used on behalf of their monochrome terrain mapping camera? (in other
words; we’ll need to know the optic or bandpass specs of each image)

What is the A/D limited dynamic range of either monochrome or color
camera?

What is each of their CCD’s raw dynamic range and spectrum bandwidth
or scope?

In other words, why not impress us by way of ISRO telling or otherwise
sharing in exactly what we’re getting for our hard earned public loot?

On Nov 12, 2:44 am, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:



In article ,

Mike Dworetsky wrote:

See what it says about this on that page. As the satellite has not yet
reached its final orbit, it may not be switched on yet. Certainly, a period
of a few days or weeks is normally needed for engineering checks on the
instruments.

The word I'm getting (from one of the instrument PIs, just down the
corridor) is that it's about 10 days until the science instruments start
taking data. There'll be a period of calibration following that, of
course, but the data should be coming in from then.

--
Andy Breen Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Thank you for that informative feedback. However, what's to calibrate
about a camera, other than selecting the best image out of hundreds or
thousands that are using whatever optical filtering or bandpass
configuration for achieving their best affect?

In other words, why select the worse possible image or much less
intentionally degrade a given image?

http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg

That initial moon image released to the public looks as though they
were using a special affects fog inducing filter. The other image of
Earth by that same terrain camera was crystal clear (or was that one
of Earth via their color camera with all of the color/hue saturation
excluded), but was there some kind of lens protective but yet optical
plate or cap that had not been opened up for the look-see at our moon?

BTW, is their color camera broken or also in need of "calibration"?

Besides the following links; can we get a full disclosure listing of
these optical filters and their plan of action for using them
individually or as stacked elements?

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/hysi.htm
http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/chandra...oads/hysi.html

It sounds like each and every “Hyper Spectral Imaging” obtained image
can be as color/hue saturated as it ever needs to be, especially
effective within their extended sensor dynamic range that’s apparently
a mystery even to ISRO. Other than a basic grayscale 8 bit
calibration, and thus limited to 8 bits per color wavelength, whereas
you might think they’d use at least 12 bit A/D, although as great as
16 bit should have been doable. However 8*64 contiguous bands = 512
bits worth of full spectral image data per composite image is
certainly a lot of color/hue saturation data to work with.

It’ll be interesting as to see how much excluding of the blue to
violet spectrums get moderated or entirely taken out of those images
before getting released to the public domain. As a matter of purely
scientific interest, I’d like to see all 64 hue/spectral bands as is
per given image. In other words, 64 frames of 8 bits each per image
will do nicely.

The terrain mapping camera with 10 bit usage of it’s APS dynamic range
is certainly good enough depending on what sort of optical bandpass
filters get utilized.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/tmc.htm
The “spectral region of 0.5 to 0.85 µm” certainly excludes the bluish
hue saturation or mineral fluorescence created by all of the UV
secondary/recoil (black light) affect coming off that reactive lunar
surface.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

TMC at 11.5 degree FOV is actually creating a large format telephoto
image result of 5 m/pixel, and without the extra bluish saturation
caused by the raw UV secondary/recoil that’s otherwise technically
unavoidable, is what makes the TMC so well suited with it’s restricted
spectral bandwidth that essentially cuts off or excludes everything
below 500 nm, is going to greatly improve the image and subsequent 3D
mapping quality. It’s like a conventional large-format B&W/monochrome
camera outfitted with a 500~850 bandpass optical filter that’ll get
rid of all that pesky bluish, purple and violet saturation caused by
the raw solar influx that includes a great deal of UV.

HySI mineralogical mapping.
Though limited at 8 bit dynamic range per spectral band, the 64 band
composite image is going to be impressive, even at 80 m/pixel
resolution and regardless of how physically dark the Selene/moon
actually is. The desired composite color/hue saturated image is then
going select or exclude whatever 8 bit bands of spectral information
necessary on order to deliver the complex mineralogical mapping data,
and otherwise tailored to provide the most true to life color
rendition that Selene represents.

~ BG

On Nov 12, 6:28 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 10, 10:37 pm, BradGuth wrote:

What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Why the delay or nondisclosure policy? (NASA damage control?)

Because we’ve been specifically informed by ISRO, we know that at
least some if not most of the 11 science instruments had been turned
on for quite some time (since having left LEO), and their having sent
back valid data, including radiation status and otherwise images from
their high resolution cameras (most likely hundreds if not thousands
of images by now). So why the media delay or need-to-know policy?

Either they have accomplished such science and having received valid
data and many observationology worthy images via Chandrayaan-1, or
they don’t. There’s no need of such information being studied or much
less modified before release to the general public that’s paying for
everything.

For example; What was their go-between space environment, especially
while within the Earth-Moon L1?

What sorts of spectrum bandpass or cutoff filters are currently being
used on behalf of their monochrome terrain mapping camera? (in other
words; we’ll need to know the optic or bandpass specs of each image)

What is the A/D limited dynamic range of either monochrome or color
camera?

What is each of their CCD’s raw dynamic range and spectrum bandwidth
or scope?

In other words, why not impress us by way of ISRO telling or otherwise
sharing in exactly what we’re getting for our hard earned public loot?

On Nov 12, 2:44 am, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:



In article ,

Mike Dworetsky wrote:

See what it says about this on that page. As the satellite has not yet
reached its final orbit, it may not be switched on yet. Certainly, a period
of a few days or weeks is normally needed for engineering checks on the
instruments.

The word I'm getting (from one of the instrument PIs, just down the
corridor) is that it's about 10 days until the science instruments start
taking data. There'll be a period of calibration following that, of
course, but the data should be coming in from then.

--
Andy Breen Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Thank you for that informative feedback. However, what's to calibrate
about a camera, other than selecting the best image out of hundreds or
thousands that are using whatever optical filtering or bandpass
configuration for achieving their best affect?

In other words, why select the worse possible image or much less
intentionally degrade a given image?

http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg

That initial moon image released to the public looks as though they
were using a special affects fog inducing filter. The other image of
Earth by that same terrain camera was crystal clear (or was that one
of Earth via their color camera with all of the color/hue saturation
excluded), but was there some kind of lens protective but yet optical
plate or cap that had not been opened up for the look-see at our moon?

BTW, is their color camera broken or also in need of "calibration"?

Besides the following links; can we get a full disclosure listing of
these optical filters and their plan of action for using them
individually or as stacked elements?

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/hysi.htm
http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/chandra...oads/hysi.html

It sounds like each and every “Hyper Spectral Imaging” obtained image
can be as color/hue saturated as it ever needs to be, especially
effective within their extended sensor dynamic range that’s apparently
a mystery even to ISRO. Other than a basic grayscale 8 bit
calibration, and thus limited to 8 bits per color wavelength, whereas
you might think they’d use at least 12 bit A/D, although as great as
16 bit should have been doable. However 8*64 contiguous bands = 512
bits worth of full spectral image data per composite image is
certainly a lot of color/hue saturation data to work with.

It’ll be interesting as to see how much excluding of the blue to
violet spectrums get moderated or entirely taken out of those images
before getting released to the public domain. As a matter of purely
scientific interest, I’d like to see all 64 hue/spectral bands as is
per given image. In other words, 64 frames of 8 bits each per image
will do nicely.

The terrain mapping camera with 10 bit usage of it’s APS dynamic range
is certainly good enough depending on what sort of optical bandpass
filters get utilized.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/tmc.htm
The “spectral region of 0.5 to 0.85 µm” certainly excludes the bluish
hue saturation or mineral fluorescence created by all of the UV
secondary/recoil (black light) affect coming off that reactive lunar
surface.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

By rights, there should never be anything fuzzy, out-of-focus or
otherwise deficient looking about any of these images.

TMC at 11.5 degree FOV is actually creating a large format telephoto
image result of 5 m/pixel, and without the extra bluish saturation
caused by the raw UV secondary/recoil that’s otherwise technically
unavoidable, is what makes the TMC so well suited with it’s restricted
spectral bandwidth that essentially cuts off or excludes everything
below 500 nm, is going to greatly improve the image and subsequent 3D
mapping quality. It’s like a conventional large-format B&W/monochrome
camera outfitted with a 500~850 bandpass optical filter that’ll get
rid of all that pesky bluish, purple and violet saturation caused by
the raw solar influx that includes a great deal of UV.

HySI mineralogical mapping.
Though limited at 8 bit dynamic range per spectral band, the 64 band
composite image is going to be impressive, even at 80 m/pixel
resolution and regardless of how physically dark the Selene/moon
actually is. The desired composite color/hue saturated image is then
going select or exclude whatever 8 bit bands of spectral information
necessary on order to deliver the complex mineralogical mapping data,
and otherwise tailored to provide the most true to life color
rendition that Selene represents.

~ BG

still no good pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”