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Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 15th 06, 10:37 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

Being English I spent ages wondering why yesterday was Pi day. This
morning it suddenly occured to me that yesterday was 3/14 in American
notation. In the UK and most other places it was 14/3. You use
mm/dd/yy, we use dd/mm/yy

The next questions that came to mind were these:

Has the American system always been that way?
If not when did it start?
Or, was the UK date system in the American form once?

Any references?

Thanks

Roger

  #2  
Old March 15th 06, 01:29 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

Roger Steer wrote:

Being English I spent ages wondering why yesterday was Pi day. This
morning it suddenly occured to me that yesterday was 3/14 in American
notation. In the UK and most other places it was 14/3. You use
mm/dd/yy, we use dd/mm/yy


Sorry for not clarifying that in the original. Must admit I thought of
Chris Marriot for a nanosecond -- a fellow Englishman, who hated the US
date notation and frequently jumped on anyone who dared to defend it
here. That and any ambiguous currency issues on Usenet, but I digress.

Has the American system always been that way?


No. In fact, on the back of the Declaration of Independence is the
notation "4th July 1776"

If not when did it start?


I'm sure someone knows, I sure don't, but the mmddyyyy notation has
been around and taught in the US school system for at least several
generations.

"Yesterday, December 7, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the
United States of America was suddenly and ..."

-FDR

Or, was the UK date system in the American form once?


Probably not.

Any references?


This might be worth a read:
http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html

Paul S.!?

--
-John Steinberg
email: lid
  #3  
Old March 15th 06, 01:52 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

That's quite an interesting point about the Declaration of
Independence, but in the UK people write 14 March 2006, March 14 2006,
quite interchangeably. In fact, I would say that the second was the
more common. However, they would always write 14/3/06 whatever - The
long form having no bearing on the short form.

Roger

  #4  
Old March 15th 06, 03:32 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:29:13 -0500, John Steinberg
wrote:

No. In fact, on the back of the Declaration of Independence is the
notation "4th July 1776"


Indeed, that remains a very common way of writing dates in the U.S.
(except that the ordinal is rarely used). I get documents all the time
dated in the format 15 March 2006. My wife, who is English, still tends
to write dates in the form March 15th, 2006, which is how she learned in
school. Of course, it doesn't really matter how you write a date if you
spell out the month. The problem comes when you only use numbers, and
the American system is darn poor.

I encourage the kids at the school here to use 2006.03.15, and they are
starting to do so. IMO that is the best notation for several reasons
(making sure to use a 4-digit year and to include leading zeros). The
system is too large to change from the top; best to just start sending
people out into it using a better method. Maybe that will eventually
influence change.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #5  
Old March 15th 06, 03:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

On 2006-03-15, Roger Steer wrote:
That's quite an interesting point about the Declaration of
Independence, but in the UK people write 14 March 2006, March 14 2006,
quite interchangeably. In fact, I would say that the second was the
more common. However, they would always write 14/3/06 whatever - The
long form having no bearing on the short form.


In which case 22/7 would be Pi Day.

Astronomers should do 2006/3/15.

--
The night is just the shadow of the Earth.
  #6  
Old March 15th 06, 04:19 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:29:13 -0500, John Steinberg
wrote:

No. In fact, on the back of the Declaration of Independence is the
notation "4th July 1776"


Indeed, that remains a very common way of writing dates in the U.S.
(except that the ordinal is rarely used). I get documents all the time
dated in the format 15 March 2006. My wife, who is English, still tends
to write dates in the form March 15th, 2006, which is how she learned in
school. Of course, it doesn't really matter how you write a date if you
spell out the month. The problem comes when you only use numbers, and
the American system is darn poor.


It is particularly confusing for genealogists when some index data for
births, deaths and marriages have been transposed in a US database like
IGI for some values MM/DD vs DD/MM where DD,MM = 12.

Extremely confusing as the system now renders what it believes to be the
month as three letter month names. I presume they swapped round all the
dates containing obviously non-physical months where MM12.

I encourage the kids at the school here to use 2006.03.15, and they are
starting to do so. IMO that is the best notation for several reasons
(making sure to use a 4-digit year and to include leading zeros).


IBM date format from the good old mainframe days. It makes sorting by
date a lot simpler when YYYYMMDD is naturally well ordered.

Regards,
Martin Brown
  #7  
Old March 15th 06, 04:53 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:37:14 -0500, John Steinberg
wrote:

Are these legal documents or science papers?


Both. Basically, I just think that there is no standard- just common
ways of doing things. So you can see anything.


My checks are all
dated MM/DD/YYYY and that's how my accounting programs record dates.


On your computer, the dates are almost certainly rendered according to
rules set up by the OS. Tell your computer you are in Europe, and most
likely your accounting program will display dates differently. It is
very bad form for any program to manage date formats internally.


But there is some ambiguity when the numbers don't immediately suggest
whether they are a month or a date, no? And then when you go 06.03.07,
my brain seizes like a small block Chevy with no oil.


There will always be the possibility of misunderstanding when writing
dates as numbers. But at least the yyyy.mm.dd format is logical, and
writing the year as four digits defines the direction to read it.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #8  
Old March 15th 06, 06:37 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

When I was in the US Navy during the 50's, the military format for
dates was dd/month/year (9 March 1955). All my forms, etc., are dated
in that format.....

During the 35 years I was an educator, we taught month/dd/year (March 9,
1955.....

As a genealogist, the preferred format seems to be dd/mon/year (9 Mar
1955).....

Most of my bills are dated mm/dd/yr (9/3/55).....

As far as I know, except for the military, there is no _one_ "standard"
acceptable format. I generally use the military format except for
genealogical forms and communication.

Wayne Howell
Photon Phlats Observatory
Port Townsend, WA
  #9  
Old March 15th 06, 06:53 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Pi Day and dates (A bit OT)

Roger Steer wrote:
Being English I spent ages wondering why yesterday was Pi day. This
morning it suddenly occured to me that yesterday was 3/14 in American
notation. In the UK and most other places it was 14/3. You use
mm/dd/yy, we use dd/mm/yy


Oh. Well, it needn't be American notation, you know. For the last
few months, I've been writing my dates in the YYYY-MM-DD format, which
in my opinion is more logical than either the American format or the
English format. After all, you get all four digits of the year, and you
can sort by date, which you can't do (without something like Perl) with
the others.

--
Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
 




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