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#61
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
I tried submitting to a Volcanology journal but they wanted nothing to
do with me. Thought that this was kind of funny since the source of magma has never been discovered. I think I need to rewrite a better paper and submit again. It has hard explaining this theory to astronomers. Sometimes I feel if I die no one will ever publish this. I really think I have discovered something. Maybe you could help me. Want to write a 20 page paper? Jon Riley (no spam) |
#62
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
"granite stone" wrote in message
oups.com... | | Laury, | Actually you got me thinking. Is the movement of Jupiter | the same energy as the heat from the Sun? Well, your idea got me thinking and I thought I'd work out how much heat could be generated by the tidal effects you suggest. I'm not sure how best to answer your question, though. The reason is that my previous answer provided that answer, but your knowledge of physics is not enough to allow you see the implications. I'm sure you know that if you brake a car, the disks get hot because the energy of the car's motion is being turned to heat energy. One of the fundamentals foundations of physics is that energy is neither created nor destroyed. If the Sun is radiating energy, something is losing energy. Your idea is that Jupiter's tidal forces are heating the sun. As a consequence, Jupiter and/or the Sun must be losing energy. I looked at Jupiter's kinetic energy (energy of motion) and worked out how long it would last if it was being converted into heating the Sun. As with a car braking, so Jupiter would be slowed down. What the figures showed was that, if all the energy stored in Jupiter's motion were turned to heat in the Sun, it would allow the Sun to shine at it's current level for another 30 years. A that time, Jupiter would have been slowed to a stop, and the sun would stop shining. I simplified it a bit because I was interested in seeing whether the energy would last for days, years or millennia. I didn't have a clue when I started. The answer was 30 years, but that's a very very rough figure. But you can be fairly sure that it's between 3 and 300 years. Incidentally, I used the centimetre-gram-second system for my calculations which rather old-fashioned. In that system, energy is measured in ergs, an erg being about as much energy as a flea jump. I hope that helps. -- .-. Laury (o o) {\0/} |
#63
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
... | It is not difficult to calculate what would happen to Jupiter's orbit if | it were powering the Sun. Out of interest, I did that calculation in another post here, and estimated Jupiter would slow to a stop in about 30 years if all its orbital kinetic energy were converted to 'sunlight'. I'd welcome it if you could tell me of any glaring errors. I rounded everything to one figure as I was intersted in seeing the order of magnitude. -- Laury |
#64
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
... | By my calculation, Jupiter's total KE is equal to the total energy | output of the Sun for 13 years. Not very impressive in the grand scheme | of a solar system that is nearly 5 billion years old. Aha! My order of magnitude figure was 30 years including energy of rotation of the Sun, with the Sun contributing 1/6th. Thanks. -- Laury |
#65
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
Good luck Jon.
-- John Carruthers http://mysite.freeserve.com/jc_atm/ "granite stone" wrote in message oups.com... I tried submitting to a Volcanology journal but they wanted nothing to do with me. Thought that this was kind of funny since the source of magma has never been discovered. I think I need to rewrite a better paper and submit again. It has hard explaining this theory to astronomers. Sometimes I feel if I die no one will ever publish this. I really think I have discovered something. Maybe you could help me. Want to write a 20 page paper? Jon Riley (no spam) |
#66
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
granite stone wrote:
Good morning......Wow. Someone instead of telling me I am a troll is asking where I copied this from. Still an insult but I have moved out of the gutter to the sidewalk. Trolls live under bridges, I believe .. not in gutters. But you perhaps are not a troll .. merely uninformed and uninformable. THis is the place to be for new ideas but the ridiculing is so much! This forum (saa) is exactly NOT the place for these ideas. There are forums for such discussions, but this is not one of them .. as an earlier poster pointed out with a detailed listing of the charter of this forum. The point is not your ideas (as specious as they are) but whether this is the place to inflict them on readers: It is NOT! If you insist on discussing off topic material, you are properly a troll and should be under a bridge Phil |
#67
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
In message , Chris L
Peterson writes On 25 Feb 2006 06:14:46 -0800, "granite stone" wrote: I say this and ask where does the energy of the Moon and the tides come from? No one has answered this. It would not be kinetic energy. By my calculation, Jupiter's total KE is equal to the total energy output of the Sun for 13 years. Not very impressive in the grand scheme of a solar system that is nearly 5 billion years old. Interesting :-) So it takes the total output of the sun for years to affect Jupiter. But don't forget that we already know what this little troll's response will be when it gets bored. Sci.astro.amateur trimmed. |
#68
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
On 25 Feb 2006 08:59:15 -0800, "granite stone"
wrote: I read all your posts. Well, I think the energy of Jupiter's orbit is very large. (by the way, I have a college physics course behind me) How can you work out the energy of the orbit as being low? Jupiter is very large. In comparison to Saturn, 3 times bigger. The energy to form Jupiter and put it into place, if that is what happened, was enormous. I think the energy of the obit of Jupiter is very large. The kinetic energy of Jupiter's orbital motion is 0.5 * 1.9e27 kg * 13.1 km/s * 13.1 km/s = 1.6e35 joules By human standards, that's a lot of energy. But the Sun's output is 3.8e26 joules/s. So how long could Jupiter's orbital kinetic energy power the Sun? Jupiter also has some rotational kinetic energy. This is difficult to calculate precisely because of all the differential rotation going on in Jupiter, but if you simply take the planet to be a solid sphere you'll get a reasonable estimate. Since you've got a college physics course behind you, you shouldn't have any problem with this calculation (hint: it is a little less than the orbital kinetic energy). Add the two energy sources together. How long could Jupiter's total kinetic energy power the Sun? (Hint: less than your age assuming you've attended college.) Also, the Moon has been giving Earth a tide for millions of years. Please explain how much energy is in our moon's orbit. _You_ can repeat the above calculations for the Moon. BTW, over millions of years both the length of a day and the distance to the Moon have changed considerably, due to the transfer of energy between the two bodies. _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com |
#69
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
JRS: In article ,
dated Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:38:10 remote, seen in news:uk.sci.astronomy, Laury posted : "Chris L Peterson" wrote in message .. . | It is not difficult to calculate what would happen to Jupiter's orbit if | it were powering the Sun. Out of interest, I did that calculation in another post here, and estimated Jupiter would slow to a stop in about 30 years if all its orbital kinetic energy were converted to 'sunlight'. I'd welcome it if you could tell me of any glaring errors. I rounded everything to one figure as I was intersted in seeing the order of magnitude. Javascript code, constants from oldish book, evaluated in js-quick.htm : Mj = 1900e24 // kg Vj = 2 * Math.PI * 777.7e9 // m / (12 * 365 * 86400) // s Ej = 0.5 * Mj * Vj*Vj // J Es = 4e9 // kg photons /sec c = 3e8 // m/s Es = Es * c*c Years = Ej / Es / (86400*365) Evaluates to 13.95 -- © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v4.00 MIME. © Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links; Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc. No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News. |
#70
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Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~
JRS: In article .com
, dated Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:59:15 remote, seen in news:uk.sci.astronomy, granite stone posted : I read all your posts. Well, I think the energy of Jupiter's orbit is very large. (by the way, I have a college physics course behind me) That reminds me of a saying, possibly apocryphal, of Winston Churchill. -- © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v4.00 MIME. © Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links. Proper = 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036) Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with "" or " " (SonOfRFC1036) |
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