RAT cuts out a quarter of a blueberry (Water origin more likely?)

"mlm" wrote in message ...
Have a look at

1M131212854EFF0500P2959M2M1.jpg

By chance (could it be by design? -- I doubt it based on the appearance of
the rock prior to grinding), the RAT has cut a partial cross section of one
of the blueberries. Look in the lower left edge of the RAT abrasion
circle. You'll see a blueberry that has been cut halfway through. THere
are clearly no rings in either the x y or z directions. These things
definitely formed at a single instant (although they may have been shaped
at the bottom of a lake over many centuries). THey did not build up in
layers. You can also see there are no distinct internal structures so
these berries would not likely be biological in origin. They cut (and
polish) just like rocks so they would have to be fairly hard. Possibly
fossils or petrified organic matter if you wanted to really speculate on a
biological origin.


The problem I have with your train of logic is that it's built on
the lack of any observed structure in the cut away spheres.
A lack of evidence isn't evidence of anything.

The observed external structure in the following single pic comprises
four elements. The grainy surface, the aperture, the bubble and
a slit. None of those elements are consistant with geological
explanations.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML

All those elements are consistant with a gemmule from a sponge, see link below.


Gemmule photo
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/plfeb96.htm#gemmules


Additional sphere photo
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML


Jonathan

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They all are also almost perfect spheres, and remarkably similar in size --
within a hundred or so microns. Place a circle over any one of them and
you will see it fits very accurately. They are therefore unlikely to be
the product of a meteor splash or volcanic eruption as this would not
result in such uniformly perfect and similarly sized spheres -- there would
be a large number of irregular berries in such an event, since a splash of
molten rock would radiate out along many trajectories.

This leaves a water-based formation as increasingly likely. Fluvial
erosion is very efficient at producing spherical rocks.

I would guess we are looking at objects which have rolled along Martian
river beds or beaches at the edge of lakes or oceans. Perhaps later
becoming set in sand accumulating and conglomerating with pressure.

Mark

Have a look at

1M131212854EFF0500P2959M2M1.jpg

By chance (could it be by design? -- I doubt it based on the appearance of
the rock prior to grinding), the RAT has cut a partial cross section of one
of the blueberries. Look in the lower left edge of the RAT abrasion
circle. You'll see a blueberry that has been cut halfway through. THere
are clearly no rings in either the x y or z directions. These things
definitely formed at a single instant (although they may have been shaped
at the bottom of a lake over many centuries). THey did not build up in
layers. You can also see there are no distinct internal structures so
these berries would not likely be biological in origin. They cut (and
polish) just like rocks so they would have to be fairly hard. Possibly
fossils or petrified organic matter if you wanted to really speculate on a
biological origin.

They all are also almost perfect spheres, and remarkably similar in size --
within a hundred or so microns. Place a circle over any one of them and
you will see it fits very accurately. They are therefore unlikely to be
the product of a meteor splash or volcanic eruption as this would not
result in such uniformly perfect and similarly sized spheres -- there would
be a large number of irregular berries in such an event, since a splash of
molten rock would radiate out along many trajectories.

This leaves a water-based formation as increasingly likely. Fluvial
erosion is very efficient at producing spherical rocks.

I would guess we are looking at objects which have rolled along Martian
river beds or beaches at the edge of lakes or oceans. Perhaps later
becoming set in sand accumulating and conglomerating with pressure.

Mark

mlm wrote in :

You'll find the images at:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...nity_m035.html

Several show the 3/4 berry.

You can't help but get the impression from looking at these MI images
that these berries became lodged in their surrounding matrix at exactly
the same time, during the same event.

Mark

Have a look at

1M131212854EFF0500P2959M2M1.jpg

By chance (could it be by design? -- I doubt it based on the
appearance of the rock prior to grinding), the RAT has cut a partial
cross section of one of the blueberries. Look in the lower left edge
of the RAT abrasion circle. You'll see a blueberry that has been cut
halfway through. THere are clearly no rings in either the x y or z
directions. These things definitely formed at a single instant
(although they may have been shaped at the bottom of a lake over many
centuries). THey did not build up in layers. You can also see there
are no distinct internal structures so these berries would not likely
be biological in origin. They cut (and polish) just like rocks so
they would have to be fairly hard. Possibly fossils or petrified
organic matter if you wanted to really speculate on a biological
origin.

They all are also almost perfect spheres, and remarkably similar in
size -- within a hundred or so microns. Place a circle over any one
of them and you will see it fits very accurately. They are therefore
unlikely to be the product of a meteor splash or volcanic eruption as
this would not result in such uniformly perfect and similarly sized
spheres -- there would be a large number of irregular berries in such
an event, since a splash of molten rock would radiate out along many
trajectories.

This leaves a water-based formation as increasingly likely. Fluvial
erosion is very efficient at producing spherical rocks.

I would guess we are looking at objects which have rolled along
Martian river beds or beaches at the edge of lakes or oceans. Perhaps
later becoming set in sand accumulating and conglomerating with
pressure.

Mark

March 1, 2004

mlm wrote:

Look in the lower left edge of the RAT abrasion
circle. You'll see a blueberry that has been cut halfway through. THere
are clearly no rings in either the x y or z directions. These things
definitely formed at a single instant (although they may have been shaped
at the bottom of a lake over many centuries). THey did not build up in
layers. You can also see there are no distinct internal structures so
these berries would not likely be biological in origin.

Actually, sorry to burst your bubble, but I do see internal structures. I see
asymmetric banding in the spherule in question, and I also see internal
structure in the various spectral composites floating around the net. I even
see hints of structure just by varying the contrast, and I certainly see
structure in eroded surface spherules and pieces of spherules.

They cut (and
polish) just like rocks so they would have to be fairly hard. Possibly
fossils or petrified organic matter if you wanted to really speculate on a
biological origin.

Obviously the material has been modified by time and environmental chemistry.

They all are also almost perfect spheres, and remarkably similar in size --
within a hundred or so microns. Place a circle over any one of them and
you will see it fits very accurately. They are therefore unlikely to be
the product of a meteor splash or volcanic eruption as this would not
result in such uniformly perfect and similarly sized spheres -- there would
be a large number of irregular berries in such an event, since a splash of
molten rock would radiate out along many trajectories.

Maybe. Maybe not. I'd like to see some credible models and simulations.

This leaves a water-based formation as increasingly likely. Fluvial
erosion is very efficient at producing spherical rocks.

Of all different shapes and sizes.

I would guess we are looking at objects which have rolled along Martian
river beds or beaches at the edge of lakes or oceans.

And all remarkably the same size?

Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net