UK Astronomy Buy & Sell

Stephen Tonkin wrote in message ...
M13 wrote:
Stephen Tonkin wrote

As a matter of interest, is that merely a statement of the current
situation, or is it also an unconditional promise for the future?

That's a statement for the current situation and the near future. Who
knows, maybe no one will use the site and I'll have to shut it down
soon anyway!

You could perhaps try answering the following questions which have been
posed in this newsgroup:

* Why did you not merely post an ad for your services on UKAA?
* Did you ask Chris before you troffed addresses from his site?
* What gain did you expect from emailed spamming of people who would
read your announcement here?

1) It never occurred to me to do so as I'm not selling anything
tanglible.
2) No, I guess I should have!
3) I only found out about uk.sci.astronomy after I emailed you
Stephen.


[...]
I have a written a section for the RASC Observer's
Handbook.

[grabs current handbook] So you have. On Observing Logbooks. Useful
article.

Thanks! I have kept an observing logbook since 1982. That's what
inspired the article.


[...]
As you can see I really am a true amateur astronomer and not a
spammer.

The point that you seem to be missing is that the definition of spam/UBE
is entirely objective. It does not rely on content, intention,
relevance, targeting, the hobby of the sender, or any other subjective
criterion. UBE is UBE if it is unsolicited (it was), bulk (you have
tacitly admitted that it was), and email (it was). No judgement call is
required.

Ok, understood. I guess I was under the impression that between
budding amateur astronomers email exchanges (even unsolicited ones)
would be acceptable. My mistake.

There is no witch hunt.


Ok, good! Perhaps it's time to move on then, and talk about
astronomy.

Best Regards,
Paul.

M13 wrote:
[...]
Perhaps it's time to move on then, and talk about astronomy.

Indeed.

Best,
Stephen

--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Stephen Tonkin | ATM Resources; Astro-Tutorials; Astro Books +
+ (N51.162 E0.995) | http://www.astunit.com +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

M13 wrote:
[...]
Perhaps it's time to move on then, and talk about astronomy.

Indeed.

Best,
Stephen

--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Stephen Tonkin | ATM Resources; Astro-Tutorials; Astro Books +
+ (N51.162 E0.995) | http://www.astunit.com +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Jeff Taylor wrote:

Heh,heh - but I bet he would, given the chance ;-)

Well, Martin, I see that one went zooming way over his head... :-)

Best,
Stephen

--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Stephen Tonkin | ATM Resources; Astro-Tutorials; Astro Books +
+ (N51.162 E0.995) | http://www.astunit.com +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Jeff Taylor wrote:

Heh,heh - but I bet he would, given the chance ;-)

Well, Martin, I see that one went zooming way over his head... :-)

Best,
Stephen

--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Stephen Tonkin | ATM Resources; Astro-Tutorials; Astro Books +
+ (N51.162 E0.995) | http://www.astunit.com +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

On 12 Jul 2003 11:23:27 -0700, in uk.sci.astronomy ,
(Chris.B) wrote:

Spam stinks, but sorry chaps, I'm simply shocked that you all take a
private e-mail. From a fellow amateur & the provider of a free
astro-kit ads service so seriously.

First of all, let me point out that I did'nt receive any email and I'm
not singling out anyone in the astro community here. I have the same
reaction to mail from C programmers, bikers, bankers, and recruitment
agents. all of which are areas of interest to me either professionally
or amateurishly (IYSWIM...!).

If I receive *any* mail sent by a human that I did not solicit, then
the sender gets one polite response saying "I don't respond to
unsolicited email, please don't send me any more", which may, if I'm
in a good mood, also contain some answers to any question they may
have asked me. If they persist in emailing me after being asked not
to, they get one rude response saying "if you send me more unsolicited
mail I will report you to your ISP". After that I either report them,
if they were abusive, or block their domain at my firewall, if they
were merely idiotic.

Had there been a grain of commercialism then by all means cry foul.

If there's been commercial content, then steps 1 and 2 above are not
taken!!

Chris this probably all sounds terribly paranoid to you. I however
take the view that my email is private, for my use and the use of my
friends or colleagues to whom I've granted permission.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
CLC readme: http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html


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On 12 Jul 2003 11:23:27 -0700, in uk.sci.astronomy ,
(Chris.B) wrote:

Spam stinks, but sorry chaps, I'm simply shocked that you all take a
private e-mail. From a fellow amateur & the provider of a free
astro-kit ads service so seriously.

First of all, let me point out that I did'nt receive any email and I'm
not singling out anyone in the astro community here. I have the same
reaction to mail from C programmers, bikers, bankers, and recruitment
agents. all of which are areas of interest to me either professionally
or amateurishly (IYSWIM...!).

If I receive *any* mail sent by a human that I did not solicit, then
the sender gets one polite response saying "I don't respond to
unsolicited email, please don't send me any more", which may, if I'm
in a good mood, also contain some answers to any question they may
have asked me. If they persist in emailing me after being asked not
to, they get one rude response saying "if you send me more unsolicited
mail I will report you to your ISP". After that I either report them,
if they were abusive, or block their domain at my firewall, if they
were merely idiotic.

Had there been a grain of commercialism then by all means cry foul.

If there's been commercial content, then steps 1 and 2 above are not
taken!!

Chris this probably all sounds terribly paranoid to you. I however
take the view that my email is private, for my use and the use of my
friends or colleagues to whom I've granted permission.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
CLC readme: http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html


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http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Please allow me to say a couple of things:

1 Chris Heapy's Astro Ads may not be the best site there has ever been, but
it works, and it is important, if astro sales are going to be successful for
buyer and seller, that they all look in the SAME place. That way, they get
the best choice, and the best chance of selling their goods at a fair price.
Unless Chris' site collapses, and I am sure that this is not at all
imminent, we should all use that - and be very thankful to him for it.
Those that start new 'small-ads' sites do the community no good at all.

2 I am, as ever, appalled by the petty, small-minded, self-important people
who post along the lines -

'someone has tried to sell me something, so I will subject him to a storm of
obscenity'. If that were uttered in a public place, it could have got the
poster a fine, or a night in the cells, but the anonymity of the net (they
usually are anonymous) allows them to act in the bullying boorish way that
they do.

'in my book ANY unsolicited email from people I don't know, whether
associated with something I'm interested in or not, is spam' - GROW UP AND
GET A LIFE!

'people who type in capital letter are 'shouting' and are rude' - grow up
and get a life! Why not take up a hobby - astronomy is a good one!

'I will not buy magazines that subsidise advertisers' - You got it wrong -
they (through their adverts) subsidise the magazine - therefore, subsidise
you, if you buy it!

Don't bother to reply to this posting, it won't be seen by me. This last
pathetic exchange between you all has been the final straw and I am
unsubscribing from uk.sci.astronomy today. Yahoo groups - preferably
moderated - have a detectable signal to noise ratio. I suggest that those
who mistakenly thought this newsgroup was about astronomy, follow suit.

Roger
------------------------------------
Roger Steer

website: http://mysite.freeserve.com/island_o...tory/intro.htm
"M13" wrote in message
om...
Some of you may be interested in a new web site dedicated to used
telescope equipment swapping for the UK and Ireland. People can place
"for sale" and "wanted" adverts free of charge.

The site can be seen at www.astrobuysell.com/uk

Please allow me to say a couple of things:

1 Chris Heapy's Astro Ads may not be the best site there has ever been, but
it works, and it is important, if astro sales are going to be successful for
buyer and seller, that they all look in the SAME place. That way, they get
the best choice, and the best chance of selling their goods at a fair price.
Unless Chris' site collapses, and I am sure that this is not at all
imminent, we should all use that - and be very thankful to him for it.
Those that start new 'small-ads' sites do the community no good at all.

2 I am, as ever, appalled by the petty, small-minded, self-important people
who post along the lines -

'someone has tried to sell me something, so I will subject him to a storm of
obscenity'. If that were uttered in a public place, it could have got the
poster a fine, or a night in the cells, but the anonymity of the net (they
usually are anonymous) allows them to act in the bullying boorish way that
they do.

'in my book ANY unsolicited email from people I don't know, whether
associated with something I'm interested in or not, is spam' - GROW UP AND
GET A LIFE!

'people who type in capital letter are 'shouting' and are rude' - grow up
and get a life! Why not take up a hobby - astronomy is a good one!

'I will not buy magazines that subsidise advertisers' - You got it wrong -
they (through their adverts) subsidise the magazine - therefore, subsidise
you, if you buy it!

Don't bother to reply to this posting, it won't be seen by me. This last
pathetic exchange between you all has been the final straw and I am
unsubscribing from uk.sci.astronomy today. Yahoo groups - preferably
moderated - have a detectable signal to noise ratio. I suggest that those
who mistakenly thought this newsgroup was about astronomy, follow suit.

Roger
------------------------------------
Roger Steer

website: http://mysite.freeserve.com/island_o...tory/intro.htm
"M13" wrote in message
om...
Some of you may be interested in a new web site dedicated to used
telescope equipment swapping for the UK and Ireland. People can place
"for sale" and "wanted" adverts free of charge.

The site can be seen at www.astrobuysell.com/uk

Mark McIntyre wrote in message . ..


First of all, let me point out that I did'nt receive any email and I'm
not singling out anyone in the astro community here. I have the same
reaction to mail from C programmers, bikers, bankers, and recruitment
agents. all of which are areas of interest to me either professionally
or amateurishly (IYSWIM...!).

Chris this probably all sounds terribly paranoid to you. I however
take the view that my email is private, for my use and the use of my
friends or colleagues to whom I've granted permission.
--
Mark McIntyre

I suppose it's a free country Mark. g
I look at the internet and e-mail system from the opposite end of
your dark tunnel. I'm looking towards the brilliantly lit end.
Probably at flames!
After a lifetime of excessive charges for any form of communication.
Not to mention the severe restrictions placed on that communication.
Particularly time, size, lack of images (beyond the black and white
library photocopier).
I now consider e-mails to be a new form of expression. The freedom to
send high quality images to anyone in the world is enormous fun.
Yesterday I sent an image of Danish timber framed houses round a
village pond to someone who lives in the Arizona desert! Our only
common interest was music & solar power in this case. I e-mailed him
to thank him for a medieval piece he arranged (as a Midi file) on his
website. Asking where I might find the score. Fortunately he didn't
report me to his ISP for this awful indiscretion!

As to spam: I never had more than the occasional one or two a week
until I upset someone on s.a.a. Another own goal, as usual. My inbox
now looks like a sausage factory. The poor IE filters are more
confused than I am. Most of the good stuff ends in the junkbox and the
spam goes straight through into the inbox. Thank god I didn't tell the
filters to kill anything.
I consider what you call 'private spam' a chance to talk to somebody
on the other side of the world. I consider commercial spam a long
overdue lack of interest by the US government in cracking down on yet
another form of indigenous commercial scum. Which may eventually lead
to severe restraints on our internet activities. Which can only please
the present paranoid American government. It makes security sifting
all our messages so much easier. 'Spam' is far too nice a word. It
should be renamed! "Bush's scrotal sweat droplets" or something
similarly catching. g

I still consider Paul's attempt to introduce a new free ads system as
a real breakthrough in this style of service. Yes ChrisH has done
extremely well in providing this service up to now. But (and I mean no
disrespect whatsoever) his way of doing things is slow. Lacks images
and the ability to correct or change anything within a short time
period. His previous daily update is becoming more like twice a week.
Though this is probably an exaggeration (or even unfair). His ads list
is always the first thing I read in the morning. Lately it's like
reading last weeks news. Sorry Chris.

Let's take a hypothetical example. You advertise a number of things
on AstroAds. The price is mistakenly set far too low on a popular
item. The ads browsers (and resellers) deluge the vendor with e-mails
and phone calls. The item was sold (reluctantly) to the first
telephone contact at well under the normal second hand price. He even
demanded free postage! No interest whatsoever in the other bits and
pieces. Yet the deluge continues for the popular item. ChrisH isn't
updating for a few days. When he does. The same item is mysteriously
selling for the usual second hand price. But is in a long list from
someone in Glasgow....g

Paul's UK Astronomy Buy & Sell (I wish I could remember that long
name) empowers sellers and helps buyers obtain a fair bargain. Quickly
and efficiently. With "bells on". g I just wish he and ChrisH would
get together. We'd get a shorter name, instant ads (with images) and
ChrisH wouldn't have to spend so much time & effort supporting ads
that have not been removed by "eternally grateful" vendors!

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/index.php

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/aa-ads.htm

Chris.B