Grey Night Sky

Pretty happy from tonights observations........JUST made out M51 in
UMa.......sad I know but the LP here is pretty damn awful........not just
from Dundee (UK) but from nearby houses, flats, TESCO supermarket and next
doors security light.

In fact looking through the ep the night sky isnt black but more a grey
colour.......and the milky is completely invisible.......M44 is barely
visible to naked eye and M31 isnt.......

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star system
with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see M51
easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also M101........which is
a no-go........got the right spot but just no galaxy........
Same for NGC2419.....right place no gc.......I am pretty sure I am looking
at the right place as I am using Cartes du Ciel, wikisky and Philips Star
Atlas........and the same star hopping technique enabled me to just about
see M51......

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the Highlands
for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

It's the same way in Los Angeles, CA. been that way since the early 60's.


--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.


The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html


"M" wrote in message
...
Pretty happy from tonights observations........JUST made out M51 in
UMa.......sad I know but the LP here is pretty damn awful........not just
from Dundee (UK) but from nearby houses, flats, TESCO supermarket and next
doors security light.

In fact looking through the ep the night sky isnt black but more a grey
colour.......and the milky is completely invisible.......M44 is barely
visible to naked eye and M31 isnt.......

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star
system with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see
M51 easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also
M101........which is a no-go........got the right spot but just no
galaxy........
Same for NGC2419.....right place no gc.......I am pretty sure I am looking
at the right place as I am using Cartes du Ciel, wikisky and Philips Star
Atlas........and the same star hopping technique enabled me to just about
see M51......

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the
Highlands for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

"M" wrote in message
...
[snip]

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star system
with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see M51
easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also M101........which is
a no-go........got the right spot but just no galaxy........

M101 is a tough one. It needs very dark skies, because of very low surface
brightness. I'd guestimate that it is a tad fainter than M33, so all the
cautions for M33 apply. It was marginally visible as an extended very faint
blob under 6.5+ skies with my 20x100 binos, but it was otherwise hardly
detectable with anything less than 100mm. If you had access to very dark
skies, you should definitely be able to pick it up with 130mm.

Its surface brightness is way below that of milky way, so if the latter is
invisible in your area, you'd probably miss M101 as well.

[snip]

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the Highlands
for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

A lot of difference, but the problem is always mobility even with small
scopes. You'd be surprised however at how many DSOs you'd be able to see even
with a good pair of binos under very dark skies.

Best of luck,

--
M
--
I.N. Galidakis
http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/

On Mar 16, 12:33 am, "M" wrote:
Pretty happy from tonights observations........JUST made out M51 in
UMa.......sad I know but the LP here is pretty damn awful........not just
from Dundee (UK) but from nearby houses, flats, TESCO supermarket and next
doors security light.

It is worth asking them round to take a look at the moon and saturn
through your scope before too long and you might be able to convince
them to turn it off when you want to go out observing. It will help if
you can put your scope in the darkest part of the garden and avoid
looking at any lights directly. Dark red glasses sold for seeing laser
site lines at building sites are useful if you have to walk around in
a very heavily white light polluted garden. It takes around 15-30
minutes for the eye to regain maximum sensitity if you let your night
sight get ruined by strong light.

In fact looking through the ep the night sky isnt black but more a grey
colour.......and the milky is completely invisible.......M44 is barely
visible to naked eye and M31 isnt.......

OK. Then you can rule out seeing M33 or M101 at a stroke.

The galaxy pair M81 M82 should be still easily visible though, as are
most of the borghter star clusters, planetary nebulae and the obvious
orion nebula M42. On the rare nights just after a storm front has
passed and the sky suddenly goes clear the air is sometimes clear
enough to see the milky way even from central Manchester.

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star system
with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see M51
easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also M101........which is
a no-go........got the right spot but just no galaxy........
Same for NGC2419.....right place no gc.......I am pretty sure I am looking
at the right place as I am using Cartes du Ciel, wikisky and Philips Star
Atlas........and the same star hopping technique enabled me to just about
see M51......

At 6" you won't get much benefit from light pollution filters in a UK
city environment and especially not on galaxies. It would help a bit
on emission nebulae though. But a second higher mag eyepiece would be
a better buy.

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the Highlands
for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

That will make a kot of difference. ANd if you have them take a pair
of binocular with you too.

Regards,
Martin Brown

I havent tried looking for M33 yet.......and reading your post atleast I
know what to expect......

Funny but knowing I will struggle to see some 'easy' DSO due to LP is
reassuring.........its frustrating to navigate by star hopping mag 8-9 stars
only to not see the DSO ......sort of like being robbed......"Someone has
stolen my M101.......I am sure I left in near that square of mag 8
stars........."

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

"Ioannis" wrote in message
news:1174006548.918546@athnrd02...
"M" wrote in message
...
[snip]

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star
system
with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see M51
easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also M101........which
is
a no-go........got the right spot but just no galaxy........

M101 is a tough one. It needs very dark skies, because of very low surface
brightness. I'd guestimate that it is a tad fainter than M33, so all the
cautions for M33 apply. It was marginally visible as an extended very
faint
blob under 6.5+ skies with my 20x100 binos, but it was otherwise hardly
detectable with anything less than 100mm. If you had access to very dark
skies, you should definitely be able to pick it up with 130mm.

Its surface brightness is way below that of milky way, so if the latter is
invisible in your area, you'd probably miss M101 as well.

[snip]

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the
Highlands
for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

A lot of difference, but the problem is always mobility even with small
scopes. You'd be surprised however at how many DSOs you'd be able to see
even
with a good pair of binos under very dark skies.

Best of luck,

--
M
--
I.N. Galidakis
http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 16, 12:33 am, "M" wrote:
Pretty happy from tonights observations........JUST made out M51 in
UMa.......sad I know but the LP here is pretty damn awful........not just
from Dundee (UK) but from nearby houses, flats, TESCO supermarket and
next
doors security light.

It is worth asking them round to take a look at the moon and saturn
through your scope before too long and you might be able to convince
them to turn it off when you want to go out observing. It will help if
you can put your scope in the darkest part of the garden and avoid
looking at any lights directly. Dark red glasses sold for seeing laser
site lines at building sites are useful if you have to walk around in
a very heavily white light polluted garden. It takes around 15-30
minutes for the eye to regain maximum sensitity if you let your night
sight get ruined by strong light.

Funny but they came out to speak to me when I was observing the lunar
eclipse........which I pointed out to them.......Not even a flicker of
interest.......as for a dark part of the garden......unfortunately there
isnt.......



In fact looking through the ep the night sky isnt black but more a grey
colour.......and the milky is completely invisible.......M44 is barely
visible to naked eye and M31 isnt.......

OK. Then you can rule out seeing M33 or M101 at a stroke.

Atleast its not me or the scope.......


The galaxy pair M81 M82 should be still easily visible though, as are
most of the borghter star clusters, planetary nebulae and the obvious
orion nebula M42. On the rare nights just after a storm front has
passed and the sky suddenly goes clear the air is sometimes clear
enough to see the milky way even from central Manchester.

Havent tried for M81 M82 yet........need to wait for the next night with few
clouds.......could be awhile......

M42 is always fun........I love the trapezium and fish mouth......er.....you
know what I mean.....
:-)

Being in Manchester you must (normally) fewer cloud free nights than here in
Dundee.......everytime (6 times) I have been to Manchester it was
raining........

Being on east coast is better for the rain shadow and weather........but
with summer approaching the chances of observing get worse.......
At the height of summer there are way fewer clouds BUT it never gets
dark........the sun is only just below the horizon (approx -9
degrees)......I spose I will have to settle for looking at noctilucent
clouds.........



My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star
system
with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see M51
easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also M101........which
is
a no-go........got the right spot but just no galaxy........
Same for NGC2419.....right place no gc.......I am pretty sure I am
looking
at the right place as I am using Cartes du Ciel, wikisky and Philips Star
Atlas........and the same star hopping technique enabled me to just about
see M51......

At 6" you won't get much benefit from light pollution filters in a UK
city environment and especially not on galaxies. It would help a bit
on emission nebulae though. But a second higher mag eyepiece would be
a better buy.

I was wondeing about filters........so many to choose from and not exactly
cheap......thanks for telling me theyre not worthwhile........saved me some
money!
My useable max mag is 260x.........but with my ep I can get to 65x (130x
with crappy barlow)........think I may well invest in some new eps
instead.......

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the
Highlands
for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

That will make a kot of difference. ANd if you have them take a pair
of binocular with you too.

Got some porro prism 7x50s that prolly will suffice........just need a
weather window..........this winter has to be the cloudiest and wettest
since moving north of the border.......Its usually very cold, crisp and
clear with the odd fall of snow.......MUCH warmer this year with temps
rarely near 0 deg C and NO snow.........weird weather

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, "M" wrote:

Pretty happy from tonights observations........JUST made out M51 in
UMa.......sad I know but the LP here is pretty damn awful........not just
from Dundee (UK) but from nearby houses, flats, TESCO supermarket and next
doors security light.

Under the circumstances, it sounds like you did very well indeed.
Congratulations!

In fact looking through the ep the night sky isnt black but more a grey
colour.......and the milky is completely invisible.......M44 is barely
visible to naked eye and M31 isnt.......

Once one's eyes have sufficiently dark adapted, even a 'dark' sky has
a visible glow to it -- nowhere near as much as your gray sky, but a
glow nevertheless.

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star system
with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see M51
easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also M101........which is
a no-go........got the right spot but just no galaxy........
Same for NGC2419.....right place no gc.......I am pretty sure I am looking
at the right place as I am using Cartes du Ciel, wikisky and Philips Star
Atlas........and the same star hopping technique enabled me to just about
see M51......

All of the older and many of the newer books assume a darker sky. M101
and M33 are likely to remain invisible whenever M51 is 'that'
difficult to see. OTOH, M81 and M82 are somewhat easier to see than
M51.

Not everyone uses the same tools nor methods for finding difficult
objects. If, when trying to find a 'new' object you can confidently
state that the telescope is pointed 'exactly' at the correct spot on
the sky, then you're doing good.

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the Highlands
for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

I don't know how dark your Highlands are; but it'll be a whole new
universe when you're under a 'dark' sky!!
--
Bill
Celestial Journeys
http://cejour.blogspot.com

Yeah......but LA has almost 10 million people !!!............

The WHOLE of Scotland doesnt even have 5 million!!..........

I'd imagine owning a telescope in LA being like owning a chocolate tea
pot..........nice to look at but no bloody use!
;-)

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

"Starlord" wrote in message
. ..
It's the same way in Los Angeles, CA. been that way since the early 60's.


--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across
the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of
the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may
yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond
the heavens.


The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html


"M" wrote in message
...
Pretty happy from tonights observations........JUST made out M51 in
UMa.......sad I know but the LP here is pretty damn awful........not just
from Dundee (UK) but from nearby houses, flats, TESCO supermarket and
next doors security light.

In fact looking through the ep the night sky isnt black but more a grey
colour.......and the milky is completely invisible.......M44 is barely
visible to naked eye and M31 isnt.......

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f 650mm........but
very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve Castors triple star
system with it.........but the DSO books I keep reading say I should see
M51 easily- its a very faint smudge of cloud.......and also
M101........which is a no-go........got the right spot but just no
galaxy........
Same for NGC2419.....right place no gc.......I am pretty sure I am
looking at the right place as I am using Cartes du Ciel, wikisky and
Philips Star Atlas........and the same star hopping technique enabled me
to just about see M51......

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the
Highlands for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little
security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

"W. H. Greer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, "M" wrote:

[snip]

All of the older and many of the newer books assume a darker sky. M101
and M33 are likely to remain invisible whenever M51 is 'that'
difficult to see. OTOH, M81 and M82 are somewhat easier to see than
M51.

With Martin and yourself saying that I am now eagerly looking forward to
hunting these two down !!!..........just need a break in the cloud cover
now!

Not everyone uses the same tools nor methods for finding difficult
objects. If, when trying to find a 'new' object you can confidently
state that the telescope is pointed 'exactly' at the correct spot on
the sky, then you're doing good.

Thanks......I find star hopping relatively easy- IF I have good maps!....its
like driving your car after looking at a road map...and I have been star
hopping (on a more macro scale) since I was 10 years old ......
However I dont have a laptop so if I do goto the Highlands I will miss
Cartes du Ciel..........though it does enable you to print off your own star
charts.........so I guess I will plan what my quarry is before hand!
The upside of spending time looking for M101 and M51 is that I now dont need
to use a map.......I can picture how to find them in my minds eye.....same
for NGC2419- though I have since read that it is a very difficuly glob to
spot due to its distance......I spose thats another downside of being 56deg
North.......few decent globs........guess I will wait for M13 and M53 to get
higher......

I don't know how dark your Highlands are; but it'll be a whole new
universe when you're under a 'dark' sky!!

The Highlands are pretty much THE darkest place to be on mainland UK......I
have bought Philips Dark Skies Map
http://www.philips-maps.co.uk/sample...=9780540086122

This should enable me to find some good sites, though its gonna be rain and
snow for the next week or so...........ah well...........


--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

Before I came to become an astronomer I figure all the lights seen at hill
tops and looking down where wonderfull, but now I'd like to nuke'm all.


--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.


The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html


"M" wrote in message
...
Yeah......but LA has almost 10 million people !!!............

The WHOLE of Scotland doesnt even have 5 million!!..........

I'd imagine owning a telescope in LA being like owning a chocolate tea
pot..........nice to look at but no bloody use!
;-)

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]

"Starlord" wrote in message
. ..
It's the same way in Los Angeles, CA. been that way since the early 60's.


--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across
the universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of
the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may
yet be brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond
the heavens.


The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html


"M" wrote in message
...
Pretty happy from tonights observations........JUST made out M51 in
UMa.......sad I know but the LP here is pretty damn awful........not
just from Dundee (UK) but from nearby houses, flats, TESCO supermarket
and next doors security light.

In fact looking through the ep the night sky isnt black but more a grey
colour.......and the milky is completely invisible.......M44 is barely
visible to naked eye and M31 isnt.......

My scope is very basic.....a 130mm Newtonian parabolic f
650mm........but very easy to store and setup...and I can resolve
Castors triple star system with it.........but the DSO books I keep
reading say I should see M51 easily- its a very faint smudge of
cloud.......and also M101........which is a no-go........got the right
spot but just no galaxy........
Same for NGC2419.....right place no gc.......I am pretty sure I am
looking at the right place as I am using Cartes du Ciel, wikisky and
Philips Star Atlas........and the same star hopping technique enabled me
to just about see M51......

Guess once my little girl is better I will make that trip into the
Highlands for true dark skies and get to see what difference it makes!

--
M
------
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little
security
will deserve neither and lose both."
[Benjamin Franklin]

"War is delightful to those who have had no experience of it."
[Erasmus]

"A collision at sea can ruin your entire day."
[Thucydides]