Looking for astronomy software

Hello,

I am looking for an astronomy software that can move up and back one full precession (26 000 years in both directions) while maintaining accurate proper motion of stars. This is for a project.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks

Andre

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 3:53:17 AM UTC, Andre wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for an astronomy software that can move up and back one full precession (26 000 years in both directions) while maintaining accurate proper motion of stars. This is for a project.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks

Andre

I have a better project for you where you will keep company with the works of the great astronomers and timekeepers through history.

The first place you visit are the ancient clocks from the neolithic era where the buildings still maintain their alignments to the June and December Solstices -

http://www.knowth.com/winter-solstice.htm

If you use common sense you will discover that in the 5200 years this building and others like it, Stonehenge for instance, the relationship of the polar axis to the Sun and orbital points have remained unchanged and the ancient builders would have seen Polaris act as the center of circumpolar motion just as we do today.

The precession of the Equinoxes has a different cause than the one Copernicus assigned to it. The annual incremental change in position of the stars, about 1° every 72 years is a finer extension of the fundamental reference for timekeeping which surfaced among astronomers thousands of years ago where Sirius skipped a first appearance by one day every 4th year -

".. on account of the procession of the rising of Sirius by one day in the course of 4 years,.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the new year" Canopus Decree 238 BC

If you really want to engage in a real project then you have many choices and avenues to consider. For me I prefer to look at the line-of-sight observation where the stars move in sequence behind the central Sun and then emerge sometimes months later as the Earth travels through space -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQw...NtRJGBFyA41wbt

The software doesn't exist by virtue that the treatment of the precession of the Equinoxes hasn't been dealt with properly aside from within this forum and even then it is done in outlines.

I wish you well with your project so long as you escape the celestial sphere ideologies which prevail in classrooms of schools and colleges.

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 19:53:10 -0800 (PST), Andre
wrote:
I am looking for an astronomy software that can move up and back
one full precession (26 000 years in both directions) while
maintaining accurate proper motion of stars. This is for a project.

Any suggestions ?

I think you need to want a decade or two, until the GAIA projekt has
been completed and the GAIA star catalog is available. That will
significantly increase your chances to have data available which
actually meets your accuracy requirements. Note that no astronomical
software package can have any greater accuracy than the accuracy in
the star catalogs it uses.

Just out of curiosity: why do you need accurate stellar proper
motions one full precessional cycles into the past and the future?
What would the consequences be if the stellar proper motion data were
less accurate than you expected? And how much accuracy do you want?

On 03/11/2015 03:53, Andre wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for an astronomy software that can move up and back one
full precession (26 000 years in both directions) while maintaining
accurate proper motion of stars. This is for a project.

Any suggestions ?

Software Bisque certainly does have an option to use proper motions and
so does Stellarium but I don't know how well. The difficulty is with
gravitationally bound binary stars where the extrapolation of the
catalogue measurement of proper motion will not be good enough.

But the predictions are only as good as the error bars on the actual
measurements which may be misleading in some binary stars for example.

To test it go to alpha Centuri and step the time forward in steps of 100
years - by 2715 alpha1 and alpha2 are very clearly separate

They are a binary pair so at some point the star charting software
predictions based on linear extrapolation of their proper motions as
measured in 2015 will be complete nonsense.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 08:54:06 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:
They are a binary pair so at some point the star charting software
predictions based on linear extrapolation of their proper motions
as
measured in 2015 will be complete nonsense.

For a binary pair, the proper motion should of course be applied to
the barycentre of the pair, not to the individual stars.

The voodoo merchants here are enemies of astronomy and its principles which include the reasons why the stars appear to move by 1° every 72 years and 360° in 25,920 years.

It must be remembered that when Copernicus first proposed the Earth had a triple motion of daily rotation,orbital motion and precession that he was still using the original geocentric framework where everything moved around the Earth and against the background field of stars including the Sun.

"The third is the motion in declination. For the axis of the daily rotation is not parallel to the axis of the great circle, but is inclined to it at an angle that intercepts a portion of a circumference, in our time about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the center of the earth always remains in the plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of the great circle, the poles of the earth rotate, both of them describing small circles about centers equidistant from the axis of the great circle. The period of this motion is not quite a year and is nearly equal to the annual revolution on the great circle." Copernicus, Commentariolous


The 21st century way is altogether different and therein exists the solution for the precession of the Equinoxes as a finer extension of a leap day correction which uses the annual motion of the stars in sequence behind the Sun due to the Earth's orbital motion alone and minus any daily rotational input. This can be seen quite clearly via the annual motions of ElNath, Castor and Pollux -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A


The other two voodoo merchants in this thread can't handle the external references for an extra rotation after four annual cycles of 365 rotations and thereby haven't a chance of dealing with the next refinement which shows up as the precession of the Equinoxes. There was an excuse in the 16th century when heliocentricity was all new but not today.

The talentless will always try to couch astronomical observations in contrived terms but the precession of the Equinoxes turns out to be a property of the proportion of the number of rotations to orbital circuits to a finer degree than the leap day correction.

oriel36 wrote:
The voodoo merchants here are enemies of astronomy and its principles
which include the reasons why the stars appear to move by 1° every 72
years and 360° in 25,920 years.

It must be remembered that when Copernicus first proposed the Earth had a
triple motion of daily rotation,orbital motion and precession that he was
still using the original geocentric framework where everything moved
around the Earth and against the background field of stars including the Sun.

"The third is the motion in declination. For the axis of the daily
rotation is not parallel to the axis of the great circle, but is inclined
to it at an angle that intercepts a portion of a circumference, in our
time about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the center of the earth always
remains in the plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of
the great circle, the poles of the earth rotate, both of them describing
small circles about centers equidistant from the axis of the great
circle. The period of this motion is not quite a year and is nearly equal
to the annual revolution on the great circle." Copernicus, Commentariolous


The 21st century way is altogether different and therein exists the
solution for the precession of the Equinoxes as a finer extension of a
leap day correction which uses the annual motion of the stars in sequence
behind the Sun due to the Earth's orbital motion alone and minus any
daily rotational input. This can be seen quite clearly via the annual
motions of ElNath, Castor and Pollux -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A


The other two voodoo merchants in this thread can't handle the external
references for an extra rotation after four annual cycles of 365
rotations and thereby haven't a chance of dealing with the next
refinement which shows up as the precession of the Equinoxes. There was
an excuse in the 16th century when heliocentricity was all new but not today.

The talentless will always try to couch astronomical observations in
contrived terms but the precession of the Equinoxes turns out to be a
property of the proportion of the number of rotations to orbital circuits
to a finer degree than the leap day correction.


Ignore this ignorant bigot. He is a master of doublethink who has nothing
of importance to say.

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 3:38:26 AM UTC-5, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 19:53:10 -0800 (PST), Andre
wrote:
I am looking for an astronomy software that can move up and back
one full precession (26 000 years in both directions) while
maintaining accurate proper motion of stars. This is for a project.

Any suggestions ?

I think you need to want a decade or two, until the GAIA projekt has
been completed and the GAIA star catalog is available. That will
significantly increase your chances to have data available which
actually meets your accuracy requirements. Note that no astronomical
software package can have any greater accuracy than the accuracy in
the star catalogs it uses.

Just out of curiosity: why do you need accurate stellar proper
motions one full precessional cycles into the past and the future?
What would the consequences be if the stellar proper motion data were
less accurate than you expected? And how much accuracy do you want?

Need to calculate northern and southern pole stars.

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 3:54:10 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
On 03/11/2015 03:53, Andre wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for an astronomy software that can move up and back one
full precession (26 000 years in both directions) while maintaining
accurate proper motion of stars. This is for a project.

Any suggestions ?

Software Bisque certainly does have an option to use proper motions and
so does Stellarium but I don't know how well. The difficulty is with
gravitationally bound binary stars where the extrapolation of the
catalogue measurement of proper motion will not be good enough.

But the predictions are only as good as the error bars on the actual
measurements which may be misleading in some binary stars for example.

To test it go to alpha Centuri and step the time forward in steps of 100
years - by 2715 alpha1 and alpha2 are very clearly separate

They are a binary pair so at some point the star charting software
predictions based on linear extrapolation of their proper motions as
measured in 2015 will be complete nonsense.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Thank you. I am seeking to reduce errors as much as possible.

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 7:03:14 AM UTC-5, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:
The voodoo merchants here are enemies of astronomy and its principles
which include the reasons why the stars appear to move by 1° every 72
years and 360° in 25,920 years.

It must be remembered that when Copernicus first proposed the Earth had a
triple motion of daily rotation,orbital motion and precession that he was
still using the original geocentric framework where everything moved
around the Earth and against the background field of stars including the Sun.

"The third is the motion in declination. For the axis of the daily
rotation is not parallel to the axis of the great circle, but is inclined
to it at an angle that intercepts a portion of a circumference, in our
time about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the center of the earth always
remains in the plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of
the great circle, the poles of the earth rotate, both of them describing
small circles about centers equidistant from the axis of the great
circle. The period of this motion is not quite a year and is nearly equal
to the annual revolution on the great circle." Copernicus, Commentariolous


The 21st century way is altogether different and therein exists the
solution for the precession of the Equinoxes as a finer extension of a
leap day correction which uses the annual motion of the stars in sequence
behind the Sun due to the Earth's orbital motion alone and minus any
daily rotational input. This can be seen quite clearly via the annual
motions of ElNath, Castor and Pollux -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A


The other two voodoo merchants in this thread can't handle the external
references for an extra rotation after four annual cycles of 365
rotations and thereby haven't a chance of dealing with the next
refinement which shows up as the precession of the Equinoxes. There was
an excuse in the 16th century when heliocentricity was all new but not today.

The talentless will always try to couch astronomical observations in
contrived terms but the precession of the Equinoxes turns out to be a
property of the proportion of the number of rotations to orbital circuits
to a finer degree than the leap day correction.


Ignore this ignorant bigot. He is a master of doublethink who has nothing
of importance to say.

I never read his posts.